Star Wars The Last Jedi - Discussion (SPOILER ALERT)

a.s.

a.s.

Mr. Chainring
Not sure if this is already up somewhere? If not, can we geek out for a minute?

Liked the movie but I can't help feeling more than a little disappointed. I feel like there were a lot of "what the fuck?" moments, and not in a good way.
 
Entertaining, but very weak. I now can tell that the director is a rookie. The movie is too long, all that extra time should be taken up with character development, but it is not.

Very strong start and a good finish. I was able to guess what was going to happen until the very end. One of the bigger twists in the story at the end was very well done.

Some sets reminded me of the old Star Trek.(WTF)

This is the weakest modern Star Wars movie, perhaps the weakest out of all 9 films.

I give it a C+.

Bring back J.J. Abrams!!!!

You as a fan of Star Wars, still must go to see it.
 
Overall I liked it, some things were a bit drawn out like the "chase". I mean how could a star destroyer not just flatten that rebel ship? I didn't know what to make of the Laura Dern character, I kept waiting for her to betray the rebels or something.
As far as the penguin/owl porgs & the sparkly fox things chalk it up to disney moichendising.
Kylo had a better role in this movie but is still a whiny bitch IMO.
Flying space Leia was an interesting development. The little tribute to Carrie in the credits was nice.
 
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I thought the most interesting part of it is how much it flew in the face of previous installments. (SPOILER ALERT! Don't read below if you haven't seen it and want to without any info!!)

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I thought it was actually fairly political its overarching theme, but I like where they went with it - when Luke tells Rey that The Force isn't a unique power to the Jedi but it's all around everyone, that kind of set all previous notions of the Jedi religion on their ear, and everything that followed supported that abandonment of previous themes in the series. The kid with the broom at the end was almost a heavy-handed way to drive that point home all the more -- he's a slave kid who naturally has the abilities that were previously peculiar to the Jedi. And the whole thing about Rey's parents being no one special is consistent with that theme as well. When you think about those themes in the context of today's political climate, it's an interesting statement on the dormant power of the average person. Of course that's just one interpretation, but I think it's hard not to recognize that there was something about regular people vs. "elites" they were trying to say there. It was definitely heavy-handed in the Finn story on the casino planet (the wealthy literally lived in a different world than other people.)

As far as the regular elements of Star Wars mythology, I'm not surprised a lot of lifelong fans would be disappointed - like I said, it took something that was always a "special" thing and consciously made it less so - it took the fantasy out of a sci-fi fantasy, at least in part. I had no issue with Kylo Ren (I think his story is much more interesting now that we know more about what made him who he is) and I enjoyed how they took his moment of "truth" and made it something else entirely - his "truth" has nothing to do with traditions, he's not a slave to the Jedi vs. Sith conflict -- he'll destroy them both which I think is a great way to take something that could be very formulaic and breathe new life into it.

The movie itself probably could have been shorter, but overall I enjoyed the "realism" of it -- the failure of the "grand plot" to help the ships escape, and the Han Solo-like character (Benicio) didn't have a heart of gold in the end, and the last remaining scholar of this grand religion has lost his own faith in it. All cynical, sure, but definitely an attempt to walk away from the paint-by-numbers installment it could have been.
 
  • I liked the movie but it was not as awesome as the “Top Critics” made it sound. One of the things that annoyed me the most were the forced comedic moments that just fell flat. That very first scene with Poe and General Hux felt like it was taken right outta the Space Balls script. Really? Really?

    And those stupid Porgs? They’re basically alien seagulls thrown into the movie for more comedic angst. I guess I should run to the Disney store and buy some for my nieces and nephews- at $24.99 a pop.

    The red octopus lapel... We never find out if DJ was the actual code breaker. And if he was then why wasn’t he wearing it? A better question is why waste our time with that stupid plot line?

    Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo reminded me of an annoying yoga instructor. And why didn’t she just do the light speed suicide jump as soon as the transport cruisers had cleared? She already sealed her fate by staying back on the main ship. Although I will say that scene, and how the theater went dead silent, I thought was one of the film’s best.

    Buuut then you cut to the next scene with Finn and Rose, who five minutes ago were surrounded by 50 storm troopers and about to get their heads cut off, and now are the only ones left alive after the First Order’s death ship gets cut in half. Oh, except for Captain Phasma who must have taken a coffee break while all that went down. But now she’s back, to fight Finn, and die unspectacularly. I wasn’t moved.

    Speaking of not being moved, let’s talk about the scene where Luke and Ben Solo duke it out. True story: when I was 6 years old I had a sticker of Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker on my desk at school. I would pretend that they were my mom and dad. Seriously. Luke Skywalker... my hero, legend of all legends. Luke, the great Jedi who restored order to the galaxy... oh wait, no he didn’t (something he admits earlier in the movie), tricks Kylo Ren with some hologram Jedi mind trick to buy time so the remaining resistance fighters can escape. And then dies. Of exhaustion. Don’t know about the rest of you but that just left me empty and dead inside. Ugh.

    Other thoughts:
    I thought Adam Driver did a great job as Kylo Ren, one of the better characters in the movie.

    The writers copped out by not killing Leia. That bullshit force thing they pulled when she got blown out of the ship... lame.

    I like Poe but Chewbacca is a better pilot.

    I liked the old days when C-3PO was the comedic relief.

    BB-8 is just as cool and awesome as R2-D2.

    Speaking of cool, Finn is pretty cool. Too bad his character got sent off on a wild goose chase while the rest of the movie was happening.

    Rey is pretty bad ass but now who’s going to teach her how to harness her power? Maybe that funny and cute Yoda hologram they slipped into this movie? Personally, I preferred the dark and tormented little green guy who taught Master Luke.

    Of course I’m going to go see it again.
 
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a.s. said:
then dies. Of exhaustion. Don’t know about the rest of you but that just left me empty and dead inside. Ugh.
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This line cracked me up.

I think the movie just makes a lot more sense if you look at it through the lens that the director (or the writers or both) wanted to destroy the mythology of the entire series so far. They wanted to take something that was a battle among elites and bring it down to earth more. Kylo Ren hates both sides of the "epic struggle", Rey is a nobody who turns out to have as much power as the strongest Jedi, and the greatest hero in the galaxy ends up being nothing more than a diversion so a small group of resistance fighters can survive who ultimately dies of, as you said, exhaustion.

I do have one question, though, that I once asked my father after he took us as kids to see Return of the Jedi. His response at the time was, "Can't you just enjoy a movie?" I wanted to know - it seems like all the Jedi who die somehow remain around in spirit form. But it's only the good guys! Even after Vader died, he was able to come back but not as Vader - he was Anakin again. Why couldn't the Emperor come back? And now, why can't Snoke? They always say that the "Dark Side" is as powerful as the ... uhhh ... the "Light Side" ... ??? ... so how come only Yoda, Obi Wan, Anakin, and now probably Luke are able to remain around in spirit form but the Emperor, Snoke, Dooku, and Darth Maul are all gone for good?
 
I thought that it was pretty solid and entertaining, finishing upper mid-pack compared to all of the previous installments. I don't think that its fair compare this to the original 3 movies since its been 30 years, the genre is pretty much established, and we know where the overall story is heading. Capturing the glory of the original three is going to take some big chances, and likely a PG-13 rating, which will never happen under Disney.

Its important for a Sci-Fi or space fantasy movie to follow the rules of the universe that it created (Star Trek used to be the master of this), which this more or less does. Yea, it was lame that the Imperial ships could barely keep up with the rebels, but this is something that you asked to blindly accept since it was a major plot driver, go with it, or sit in your seat all pissed off. Lea finally using the force was a little lame, but since she's the daughter of a Sith Lord, not entirely out of left field. I agree that BB8 is cool, and wish that they would bring C-3PO back as the witty comic relief. Instead they used the penguin-chickens for that, a few seconds at a time. At least one of them almost got eaten. The crystal foxes were a necessary plot element, to show the rebels where the exit was.

They could have made this shorter, but I think it would have made the story even more disjointed. The purpose of Finn's wild-goose chase (complete with bullshit political undertones) was to introduce Benicio del Toro's character (who I wish had more screen time), and a necessary plot element to the next movie, that we saw at the end. The battle scenes were pretty solid I thought, although Ren killing his master could have had a little more tension built into it. Ren developing into his own villain is a nice touch also, avoided being derivative. Overall, I don't see how this goes beyond one more installment, since like Game of Thrones, the plot doesn't have many more places to go.
 
1speed said:
so how come only Yoda, Obi Wan, Anakin, and now probably Luke are able to remain around in spirit form but the Emperor, Snoke, Dooku, and Darth Maul are all gone for good?
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You can’t see them because they’re dark, unlike the good guys who are surrounded by light. 🙄

And for the record Darth Vader wasn’t loyal to the Empire. “Join me Luke, and together we can rule the galaxy.”
 
If you read into the movie a little more, especially the very end (hey, its almost Friday), another young Jedi, born from slavery, looking for a father figure, right before the supposed final installment..... Here we potentially go again....
 
I just don't like how they can't be original and keep borrowing from the OG trilogy. It was no surpirse Kylo Ren was going to kill Snoke because it was the exact same set-up as Return of the Jedi when the Emperor was bragging to Luke and making him watch them destroy the rebels, while Vader sat back and just watched as the ever vigilant pupil. Say what you want about the prequels, they had some serious light saber duels and character development, minus the annoying childish parts. Still a good movie and because it is Star Wars, reviews start at a higher level, for me anyway.
 
Monkey Soup said:
If you read into the movie a little more, especially the very end (hey, its almost Friday), another young Jedi, born from slavery, looking for a father figure, right before the supposed final installment..... Here we potentially go again....
Click to expand...

IMO there will be a Star Wars movie released every December for the rest of my days.

I thought the movie was fine, perhaps more formulaic than I would have suspected but it is what it is, and you need to follow the rules of the Star Wars Guide to Making Movies with these. I mean if they added a 3rd major element people would be all "WTF is this left field nonsense?" Overall I think this was sub-par on the scale. Our family of 5 went to dinner after we saw this and we did not talk about it at all. IDK what that means but that really never happens when we see a movie.

To me, I see the natural progression of this story being that Rey & Kylo are siblings. I just assumed this is where it is all going. Isn't that in the rulebook?

Major fail that Chewy didn't eat that pheasant-plover or whatever the hell it is.
 
Well now that Finn and Rose (another feel-good fail; why she didn’t die is beyond me) are an item, Rey and Chewy can hook up and raise space chickens.

I suspect Kylo and Rey are siblings, Kylo of course killed their parents, Rey in a fit of rage has an epic lightsaber battle with her brother. But then she realizes she’s being drawn to the dark side and backs off, forgives Kylo, who consequently dies at the end. From eating bad space chicken.

There. I just saved y’all about $500 in movie tickets. 😉
 
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I've seen another documentary where they really showed some before/after cuts of star wars pre and post editing. Not the editing like in the above, but the nitty gritty of exactly how many frames to leave in particular shots. I thought it was an older woman but the above doesn't mention her. But it made a HUUUUGE difference in making star wars look AWESOME vs it coming off like an episode of Dr. Who.
Gotta find it, they highlighted the part where when the mr. sand people puts his stick above his head and cheers that the shot was only him lifting up his stick, and they played it forward and backwards 3 times to make it look like a celebration.
The nitty gritty of the sounds used in the movie really made it too.

Found it, it's called Empire of Dreams. Lemme know if you can't find it to watch. I thought it was REALLY good.
 
Killing of Snokes - for a second, you don't know who did it.

Then for second, you think Kylo is asking Rey to form a suicide pact. I think he may have been, but backed off to "new order"

Lots of politics -

Also when Snokes goes, Luke has to go - because of balance.

We learn that Kylo has a weak mind, but strong with the force - he was easily fooled by snokes and luke.
His psycho/obsessive persona is awesome. He is a child with a gun.

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Vice Admiral Holdo was Ellie in Jurassic Park (It's a unix system!) - Her role was to keep the people calm, while the plan was executed.
She could have positioned the ship between the evac group and the star destroyer (on auto pilot) - since they couldn't penetrate the shields.
But the light speed jump was a good move. Like when Kirk Jumped to light speed to move 100m so he could shoot with the shields down,
without being targeted.....

i liked the colors in the film.

when Holdo told Poe he was dangerous (??) was that a homage to Top Gun?

the tie fighter pilots look too much like cylons.

it had enough old with new. Solo is next ?
 
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