SOS mtb race class act...think again.

@jeffstick - What cat did you race? They fixed the markings (more tape/cones, etc) after a bunch of people screwed up in the section the OP is talking about and also where I went right past the turn at the end.

@Firedawg20 - more important than us losers who went the wrong way and are complaining about it online - will we see the results and the pics sometime soon?
 
@jeffstick - What cat did you race? They fixed the markings (more tape/cones, etc) after a bunch of people screwed up in the section the OP is talking about and also where I went right past the turn at the end.

@Firedawg20 - more important than us losers who went the wrong way and are complaining about it online - will we see the results and the pics sometime soon?
Right, cones were placed AFTER first cat 2 racer screwed up and came up the road. I saw the guy walk them half mile down the road.
 
Shouldn't even need cones at that turn there were arrows pay better attention to the white signs with an arrow.

I raced Cat 2 no course marking issues.
 
Shouldn't even need cones at that turn there were arrows pay better attention to the white signs with an arrow.

I raced Cat 2 no course marking issues.
You must have been one of the slower cat 2 guys? They fixed the road problem about 5 minutes after the fast guys went through. I agreed that I didn't see how he made the mistake and he is a friend of mine. I talked to a different buddy and he had three friends make the same mistake. It happens, no one is perfect but a volunteer acting like a jerkoff to a participant can be looked into and corrected for next time. You guys are just pinpointing that he made a mistake which he admitted but then the guy kept telling him to go the wrong direction and then cursed at him. But you somehow justify that part? @Riggedfmx is new to the racing scene but is bringing some new energy to the scene. Just to keep it simple , if 10 or so of 100 racers(i didn't see 150 but maybe there were) make the same mistake then that problem should be looked into. That's all. And once again, I had zero problems navigating the course.
 
You must have been one of the slower cat 2 guys? They fixed the road problem about 5 minutes after the fast guys went through.
Actually he's one of the longest running and most consist race promoters in the state along with being a tireless (pun) advocate for our sport and someone who has hundreds if not more hours of trail work under his belt. He'd be faster if he abandoned his trail work, race promoting and just dedicated himself to training.
 
Actually he's one of the longest running and most consist race promoters in the state along with being a tireless (pun) advocate for our sport and someone who has hundreds if not more hours of trail work under his belt. He'd be faster if he abandoned his trail work, race promoting and just dedicated himself to training.
It wasn't meant as a blow saying he's slow, but more that one of the corrections was made by the time he rolled through. I was the one that pointed out that the first guy through came rippin up the road.
 
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Actually he's one of the longest running and most consist race promoters in the state along with being a tireless (pun) advocate for our sport and someone who has hundreds if not more hours of trail work under his belt. He'd be faster if he abandoned his trail work, race promoting and just dedicated himself to training.


Plus he's an experienced Racer that has learned the skill of course navigation.
 
Well since the 50+ guys went off near last, yea we were near the end coming around for the lap. Still no need for cones, follow the arrows.

Simple course navigation and experience would dictate that when you come to an intersection with no markings and see them on a cross trail you should turn around. I get he is new, but let's face it, he rode the same section of the course 3 times before he realized where he went wrong and somehow the third time through escarpment trail figured it out.

So the volunteer maybe shouldn't have used a few curse words but we are hearing one side of the story. I'm sure he didn't ride up to the volunteer and politely ask "can you please direct me back on course I may have made a wrong turn" it was more than likely "you guys messed up the course marking" with maybe a couple of expletives involved.
 
Well since the 50+ guys went off near last, yea we were near the end coming around for the lap. Still no need for cones, follow the arrows.

Simple course navigation and experience would dictate that when you come to an intersection with no markings and see them on a cross trail you should turn around. I get he is new, but let's face it, he rode the same section of the course 3 times before he realized where he went wrong and somehow the third time through escarpment trail figured it out.

So the volunteer maybe shouldn't have used a few curse words but we are hearing one side of the story. I'm sure he didn't ride up to the volunteer and politely ask "can you please direct me back on course I may have made a wrong turn" it was more than likely "you guys messed up the course marking" with maybe a couple of expletives involved.
That's the part you missed. A "simple" proof read of theinitial post and you would understand that the course worker is the one that told him to go in the wrong direction 3 times. It's not always as "simple" as you say especially while leading a race. Some layout was questionable as quite a few made the same mistake but that's ok, just minor rider/promoter error. The disgruntled course worker is the unacceptable problem but you don't want to acknowlege that.
 
I didn't miss that part of the initial post. It's quite obvious here that this will go on and on so I'm dropping it here as its really not worth my time and effort to respond any more. I need to get training so I'm not one of the "slower" guys.
 
I didn't miss that part of the initial post. It's quite obvious here that this will go on and on so I'm dropping it here as its really not worth my time and effort to respond any more. I need to get training so I'm not one of the "slower" guys.
That's fine. It would have been
I didn't miss that part of the initial post. It's quite obvious here that this will go on and on so I'm dropping it here as its really not worth my time and effort to respond any more. I need to get training so I'm not one of the "slower" guys.
once again I was not implying that you are slow but on this particular day the leaders were affected by the confusion. I did this race solely for fun as my race season is over and chain stretcher was a really fun course despite being another ny round with questionable markers. I like riding both places but if constructive criticism is ignored by certain promoters then I guess the event will always be only as good as it was last year. The same volunteer will probably be in the same spot using the same profanity. I'm just here for the waffles.
 
I'm not familiar with Stewart or SOS, but isn't this a safety issue?
Imagine a worst-case scenario - a rider goes off course, and for whatever reason remains unaccounted for at the end of the day.
Is this not a concern of the promoters?
I admittedly have never once actually read one of the Waivers I signed, so this is a genuine question.
 
I'm not familiar with Stewart or SOS, but isn't this a safety issue?
Imagine a worst-case scenario - a rider goes off course, and for whatever reason remains unaccounted for at the end of the day.
Is this not a concern of the promoters?
I admittedly have never once actually read one of the Waivers I signed, so this is a genuine question.
Good point @Dominos. That could be scary if someone goes off course and over an escarpment or really gets hurt and is not on the course and is possibly missed during the post-race course sweep and clean-up.
 
Imagine a worst-case scenario - a rider goes off course, and for whatever reason remains unaccounted for at the end of the day.
Is this not a concern of the promoters?

If race promoters focused solely on worst case scenarios they would never host a race.
I'm sure promoters are concerned with people getting hurt and the possibility of a lawsuit but thankfully we still have these people to step up and take the risk of hosting a race.
 
I'm not familiar with Stewart or SOS, but isn't this a safety issue?
Imagine a worst-case scenario - a rider goes off course, and for whatever reason remains unaccounted for at the end of the day.
Is this not a concern of the promoters?
I admittedly have never once actually read one of the Waivers I signed, so this is a genuine question.

Ok I will take this and answer it, since someone asked me what my opinion was as a race promoter.

For me, I look at the things from a really simple perspective. This is what racers want:

1. A course
2. Scoring

You need to get these 2 things right. If you somehow mess up number plates, you know, in the end you can make it work still. But you absolutely need the 2 above pieces to call your event a race. Everything on top of that is an add-on. Food, schwag, ice cream, aid station, course TM, etc. If you screw up #1 or #2, forget it, you don't have a race. I will not get into #2 as that is not an issue here.

I will look at the race we host with the greatest possible threat to rider safety: Stewart 45. This is because it is a hot time of year when people can overheat and do dumb things. As a race promoter we need to address this.

No insurance company is going to give you insurance without doing some due diligence, and you need to make sure you act accordingly as a promoter to fulfill these promises. To that end:

1. We bring in an ambulance as well as an EMT quad in the event medical attention is needed
2. Before that, we have submitted an action plan to the insurance company with regards to the above
3. We go over the map of the course with the lead EMT
4. We publish the GPS to all racers and volunteers
5. We put an aid station out on the course
6. We put volunteers at key course areas where confusion may occur
7. We sweep the course after the race
8. We provide food & water at the start/finish as well
9. We have volunteers riding the course all day

But how can we be sure that nobody is left on course? We don't leave until the pit is clean of all personal items and there are no cars in the lot. As long as we have covered steps 1-9 as well as making sure nobody's personal effects and cars are there, there is some reasonable assurance that nobody is out there lost and trying to find their way home.

I will address the above scenario as it plays into some of this. I am hesitant to get involved here but it is part of this answer so I will. Every intersection needs to be addressed the following way:

1. An arrow before the intersection
2. An arrow at the intersection
3. A confirmation arrow after the intersection
4. Tape across the other options of this intersection
5. Sometimes red arrows down these wrong trails too if it is a potential problem area
6. Usually we put a lot more than 3 arrows

See #3: confirmation arrows. This is critically important. If you go through an intersection and see a confirmation arrow, you know you went the right way. Nothing makes a racer panic more than going through an intersection and not seeing a confirmation arrow.

If we have done the above, then as a race promoter and team, we have covered all our bases. Signing a waiver means that we have done some basic work to assure the course is well marked and reasonably safe. The sport of mountain biking is inherently dangerous and anyone who enters a race like this knows the risks involved. As long as we have covered all course & safety issues and we do our best to address any injury situations as quickly and efficiently as we can, then we have done all we can do to provide a safe & well marked course.

No matter how well you mark the course, things happen. Last year someone blew through the tape, hit the brakes, and turned around. Racers after this just went through, somehow not seeing the arrows nor the tape. Luckily for us the trails ended up in the same spot and it was really a non-issue in the end. But the point is that despite all your best efforts, sometimes things still happen and there is nothing you can do about it. All you can do is your best and hope that everyone has a good day out there.
 
Ok I will take this and answer it, since someone asked me what my opinion was as a race promoter.

For me, I look at the things from a really simple perspective. This is what racers want:

1. A course
2. Scoring

You need to get these 2 things right. If you somehow mess up number plates, you know, in the end you can make it work still. But you absolutely need the 2 above pieces to call your event a race. Everything on top of that is an add-on. Food, schwag, ice cream, aid station, course TM, etc. If you screw up #1 or #2, forget it, you don't have a race. I will not get into #2 as that is not an issue here.

I will look at the race we host with the greatest possible threat to rider safety: Stewart 45. This is because it is a hot time of year when people can overheat and do dumb things. As a race promoter we need to address this.

No insurance company is going to give you insurance without doing some due diligence, and you need to make sure you act accordingly as a promoter to fulfill these promises. To that end:

1. We bring in an ambulance as well as an EMT quad in the event medical attention is needed
2. Before that, we have submitted an action plan to the insurance company with regards to the above
3. We go over the map of the course with the lead EMT
4. We publish the GPS to all racers and volunteers
5. We put an aid station out on the course
6. We put volunteers at key course areas where confusion may occur
7. We sweep the course after the race
8. We provide food & water at the start/finish as well
9. We have volunteers riding the course all day

But how can we be sure that nobody is left on course? We don't leave until the pit is clean of all personal items and there are no cars in the lot. As long as we have covered steps 1-9 as well as making sure nobody's personal effects and cars are there, there is some reasonable assurance that nobody is out there lost and trying to find their way home.

I will address the above scenario as it plays into some of this. I am hesitant to get involved here but it is part of this answer so I will. Every intersection needs to be addressed the following way:

1. An arrow before the intersection
2. An arrow at the intersection
3. A confirmation arrow after the intersection
4. Tape across the other options of this intersection
5. Sometimes red arrows down these wrong trails too if it is a potential problem area
6. Usually we put a lot more than 3 arrows

See #3: confirmation arrows. This is critically important. If you go through an intersection and see a confirmation arrow, you know you went the right way. Nothing makes a racer panic more than going through an intersection and not seeing a confirmation arrow.

If we have done the above, then as a race promoter and team, we have covered all our bases. Signing a waiver means that we have done some basic work to assure the course is well marked and reasonably safe. The sport of mountain biking is inherently dangerous and anyone who enters a race like this knows the risks involved. As long as we have covered all course & safety issues and we do our best to address any injury situations as quickly and efficiently as we can, then we have done all we can do to provide a safe & well marked course.

No matter how well you mark the course, things happen. Last year someone blew through the tape, hit the brakes, and turned around. Racers after this just went through, somehow not seeing the arrows nor the tape. Luckily for us the trails ended up in the same spot and it was really a non-issue in the end. But the point is that despite all your best efforts, sometimes things still happen and there is nothing you can do about it. All you can do is your best and hope that everyone has a good day out there.
Thanks @Norm. This whole deal got blown out of proportion. All promoters are appreciated. It was more of a disgruntled course worker that was the issue. I may be wrong but i think @Riggedfmx may have just been looking for someone to acknowledge what happened and make an attempt to fix it or repramand the worker, not that the whole course was screwed up. Stewart is top 2 of my fav places to ride.
 
As a guy who has hosted/managed/promoted/race-directed wheel-to-wheel racing and track days at Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, Nazareth and Pocono as well as assisted at Mid-Ohio, ViR, Summit Point, PiR etc .. Norm has it all exactly right.
 
As a guy who has hosted/managed/promoted/race-directed wheel-to-wheel racing and track days at Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, Nazareth and Pocono as well as assisted at Mid-Ohio, ViR, Summit Point, PiR etc .. Norm has it all exactly right.
This post got way out of context, somehow it turned into a nitpicking shit show when in reslity @Riggedfmx was showing his frustration with a disgruntled course worker no one seems to talk about that, just down play it like the rider is stupid. 99% of races everyone including workers have been awesome imo. It's like it's impossible for a race to have a problem like that. Sorry if I contributed to the misdirection but geez, the promoter could atleast say "hey, sorry for that bad experience but I'll look into it so it doesn't happen again". BTW if you want to promote a race to the top spot follow what George does with SSP, what Chris does at w101, what mtbnj does at mooch and stew...roadie example...HOH.
 
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