Jungle Habitat is back in H2H in 2022
- Thread starter Jeremy
- Start date
Just to clarify my comment, I don’t think (for example) a cat 1 should do 2 laps of the long and 1lap of the short. Or cat 2 should do 1 of each. It’s too much to think about during a race.
I suppose if you set up a well marked and communicated prologue it would work….
I’m assuming endurance is doing x number of laps of the long loop?
I'm thinking about it now....the split is at the end of cages - long course crosses the road, short turns left.
long adds tiger pen/fish/hippo/animal chute - while it isn't a blazing fast spot because of the turn, to the narrow drop,
straight is much easier than turning onto the road.
if the goal is to get cat 2 right around an hour - two loops of the long is too much -
i think cat 1 could handle 3 loops in 90ish
if it is a swamp, we may short circuit warthog, and just do the two loops/three loops of the shortened version - have cat 3 do two of the short course.
will talk with David, and watch the weather.
kjarrett
Well-Known Member
Calling all photographers - this race is now on Roots & Rain, ready for any pics you get:
www.rootsandrain.com
I was planning to shoot it but can't, now - hope some others will.
-kj-
Results | Jungle MTB Escape at Jungle Habitat, West Milford, NJ
Full results from Jungle MTB Escape at Jungle Habitat, West Milford, NJ. Click into any rider to see their event history and any tagged photos they have.
www.rootsandrain.com
I was planning to shoot it but can't, now - hope some others will.
-kj-
Here’s the fine print from bikereg. I may be missing something, but it seems equal?
“Cash Payouts & Prizes
Equal $ Payouts ALL Men's & Women's Pro/Cat 1 & Endurance Categories
Cat 1/Pro Open Cash Payout will be per category proportional to entries in the class: Top 3 with 10 or less entries as follows: 50% payout with 5 or less racers, 75% payout with 6-9 racers, 100% payout with 10 racers. Top 5 with 15 or more racers in category. (1) $200, (2) $150, (3) $100, (4) $75, (5) $50.
Endurance Cash Payout will be per catgeory proportional to entries in class. Top 3 with 10 or less entries as follows: 50% payout with 5 or less racers, 75% payout with 6-9 racers, 100% payout with 10 racers. Top 5 with 15 or more racers in category. (1) $125, (2) $100, (3) 75, (4) $50, (5) $25
Medals & Prizes for Cat 1/2, Cat 2, Cat 3 and all Open Categories.”
Not equal. This does not guarantee that both winners get the same payout.
yes, as I recall we would take all the pro money, put it in 1 pot, then payout equally to everyone........I marked the courses and stapled arrows, so I might have missed this detail...but IIRC
currently, there are no cat 1/pro women registered. Hopefully that changes tomorrow.
Maybe a current and past race directors summit in January to discuss and be consistent?
Would be nice if (some of) the prize money was somehow sponsored, but that is a different topic.
Correct. We determined what was viable and split it evenly.
We sometimes gave the women's winner $1 more to be able to say that we paid out women more than the men. But this is also because 1 of our women usually won. Elmo Shrug.
@jShort @Patrick @Norm @UtahJoe
@Norm is correct in that this "payout structure" would not create an equal payout.
2 main points on this that I've spoken about previously:
First, individual categories do not fund their class payouts. Payout for the Pros is funded by the amateur classes, so there is no reason to place an arbitrary requirement on the Women’s Classes
Second, the target is grossly unreasonable. Take a look at the # of women who typically register for a jungle race (or a Norther NJ race like ringwood or a comparable course) Let’s say you get, typically, 5 women in the cat 1 / pro-women class. The typical attendance would need to DOUBLE for the women to receive EQUAL payout. Would any promoter EVER require the Pro Men’s class to DOUBLE their participants from one year to the next before paying out the full prize money? Nope. Never.
@Patrick - I don't know if you can edit the bike reg page not, but if you can, I'd suggest updating the title Equal $ Payouts ALL Men's & Women's Pro/Cat 1 & Endurance Categories to simply: "Payout structure"
Find more fun tips at: https://muddybikekris.com/2021/06/25/tips-for-promoters-valuing-women-participants/
@Norm is correct in that this "payout structure" would not create an equal payout.
2 main points on this that I've spoken about previously:
First, individual categories do not fund their class payouts. Payout for the Pros is funded by the amateur classes, so there is no reason to place an arbitrary requirement on the Women’s Classes
Second, the target is grossly unreasonable. Take a look at the # of women who typically register for a jungle race (or a Norther NJ race like ringwood or a comparable course) Let’s say you get, typically, 5 women in the cat 1 / pro-women class. The typical attendance would need to DOUBLE for the women to receive EQUAL payout. Would any promoter EVER require the Pro Men’s class to DOUBLE their participants from one year to the next before paying out the full prize money? Nope. Never.
@Patrick - I don't know if you can edit the bike reg page not, but if you can, I'd suggest updating the title Equal $ Payouts ALL Men's & Women's Pro/Cat 1 & Endurance Categories to simply: "Payout structure"
Find more fun tips at: https://muddybikekris.com/2021/06/25/tips-for-promoters-valuing-women-participants/
I remember your discussion with David last year.
I don't have access to the page, so I'll let him know your suggested clarification.
Got it. I called the WTF guys out last year and I think they eventually corrected.
serviceguy
Well-Known Member
Reading this thread two questions come to (my) mid:
- given the actual amount of the payouts even at 100%, is the financial reward even a real incentive for these type of races? wouldn't it be better to do away with it and use the money toward improvements to the support facilities (i.e. access to bathroom facilities, marketing, swag etc.) ?
- besides the unequal payout based on attendance of individual classes as split between Men and Women, why such low numbers in Women attendance ? Is this an issue with the sport in general or a result of races organization ?
Maybe too wide of a subject for a specific race thread?
- given the actual amount of the payouts even at 100%, is the financial reward even a real incentive for these type of races? wouldn't it be better to do away with it and use the money toward improvements to the support facilities (i.e. access to bathroom facilities, marketing, swag etc.) ?
- besides the unequal payout based on attendance of individual classes as split between Men and Women, why such low numbers in Women attendance ? Is this an issue with the sport in general or a result of races organization ?
Maybe too wide of a subject for a specific race thread?
Women's participation in the sport has def been a struggle - even more so with the racecourses that are less beginner & intermediate friendly like in Northern NJ ie - rocky. You can see the xc races in southern NJ tend to get much higher #'s of women participating. That being said, there are a lot of things that discourage women from participating in a particular event - i encourage you to read through this article i wrote: https://muddybikekris.com/2021/06/25/tips-for-promoters-valuing-women-participants/ it lists about 9 things that encourage women to participate - and you can interpret them all as these are the things women STILL experience at most races.
With the development of NICA - https://newjerseymtb.org - I believe more females are being drawn into the sport, but it is still an ongoing issue. Nica has a genuine intention to bring more girls into the sport and offers a number of programs to back that intention up. There is also a program called little bellas which is geared at really young girls.
serviceguy
Well-Known Member
I did read the points you make, one of the reason I was wondering if the payouts wouldn’t be better used in improving the services available at the race courses for example.
You did, and they did.
Our last Mooch race paid out $600 total across the whole pro class. That doesn’t even cover the portable toilets. Not sure what good it would do the park to donate it.
The cost of building a trail is minimum $10 per linear foot, but usually more. That doesn’t buy you much trail.
I’m not sure redirecting that money moves any needle in any meaningful way.