I am a transgender woman and I occasionally race my bike. AMA

[Steve Vai]

Let's clear something up first: I never raced in the women's field as a male. I started hormone therapy more than 8 months before entering my first race as a woman and a full year after coming out to the first few people closest to me. The effects of the HRT on my strength, recovery, and other performance markers came into play within the first 3 months. I went from being able to hang with an A group to struggling at the back of a B group.

I have been welcomed with open arms into the women's field by all of the women that I race with and know personally. If someone has an issue with me being there, I would invite them to look up the rules, talk to me, etc before just using it as an excuse to drop out of racing.

Yeah, like I said, I think there's misinformation all the way around this issue. Another side I definitely see if what's said on/offline are not the same. With many people being attacked for having an opposing opinion, they will stay quiet publicly.

Again, these aren't my opinions, just ramblings from dealing with a large number of folks in the cycling world. Thanks.

 

[stb222]

Because we are a marginalized group. We face additional hurdles in the form of transphobia, access to healthcare, additional testing, and counter-acting the effects of the medications we take to manage our hormone levels.

I agree that if you accomplish something you should celebrate and be celebrated. Correct me if i'm wrong but I think @clarkenstein 's point was would you rather the headline read "mystyer Wins Women's Race" or "Transgender mystyer Wins Women's Race"?

To not acknowledge it is to erase it.

I think this is bringing to light part of the issue people may have with headlines like "Transgender mystyer Wins Women's Race".

Your results are not erased if Transgender is not stated in the registration / results / headline. If the ultimate goal is gender reassignment, then wouldn't one want to be recognized as the desired re-assigned gender?

This is a different animal than other marginalized groups like race, nationality, religion, mainly because of the physical difference between men and women.

 

[mstyer]

If the fact that one is a transgender individual has no overall effect on their performance in said race, then why is that detail relevant?

And thanks for this! I personally am gaining at least some level of enlightenment from it.

If the fact that one is a transgender individual has no overall effect on their performance in said race, then why is that detail relevant?

And thanks for this! I personally am gaining at least some level of enlightenment from it.

See post #15 by u/clarkenstein.

 

[mstyer]

I think this is bringing to light part of the issue people may have with headlines like "Transgender mystyer Wins Women's Race".

Your results are not erased if Transgender is not stated in the registration / results / headline. If the ultimate goal is gender reassignment, then wouldn't one want to be recognized as the desired re-assigned gender?

This is a different animal than other marginalized groups like race, nationality, religion, mainly because of the physical difference between men and women.

I think what's missing from that headline scenario is the word "first". Rachel is making headlines not because she's a trans woman but because she's the first trans woman to reach this level.

Your differentiation of marginalized groups shows your bias. I would ask you to gain a better understanding of what the word means before saying anything further.

 

[Juggernaut]

This has been done. Dr. Joanna Harper has studied this extensively and consulted on the current IOC policy.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...nsitions-alter-athletic-performance-including

" In 2015, she published the first study of transgender athletes' performances, finding that transgender women who received treatment to lower their testosterone levels did no better in a variety of races against female peers than they had previously done against male runners."

Interesting read, thanks for sharing it. I myself am not a fan of Oped (regardless of what side it’s on), dry and boring is how I like my news... but that’s not relevant to the discussion. I can say the article was informative and facts as presented seem legitimate.

So where do we go from here?

 

[mstyer]

So where do we go from here?

We believe the people that have published peer-reviewed scientific data. We comply with the regulations of the sports governing bodies. We treat everyone with humanity and empathy. We speak out against hate.

 

[Dominique]

This has been done. Dr. Joanna Harper has studied this extensively and consulted on the current IOC policy.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...nsitions-alter-athletic-performance-including

Has Dr. Harper published any other studies? I did a quick search but couldn't find anything else?

The study you mentioned is a very small study of eight individual, which says that "the eight runners had much slower race times in the female gender than as males." which is in line with what you are saying that taking hormone therapy does decrease your "output" compared with previous levels.

http://10ste93kec2i6oi6nlhmxd19.wpe...0_RaceTimesforTransgenderAthletes_FinalOF.pdf

I understand this is a very hard subject to study.

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions.

 

[Juggernaut]

We believe the people that have published peer-reviewed scientific data. We comply with the regulations of the sports governing bodies. We treat everyone with humanity and empathy. We speak out against hate.

Well, we’re living in the right time for that. Globally speaking, this is the most receptive era in recorded history. Yes, historians can show examples of periods where one Culture or another may have been more “enlightened” I believe the correct term is, but globally speaking...this is the time.

 

[mstyer]

Has Dr. Harper published any other studies? I did a quick search but couldn't find anything else?

The study you mentioned is a very small study of eight individual, which says that "the eight runners had much slower race times in the female gender than as males." which is in line with what you are saying that taking hormone therapy does decrease your "output" compared with previous levels.

http://10ste93kec2i6oi6nlhmxd19.wpe...0_RaceTimesforTransgenderAthletes_FinalOF.pdf

I understand this is a very hard subject to study.

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions.

I'm not sure what other publications she might have. You're correct that it's a very difficult subject to study. Consider how small of a percentage of the human population is transgender then factor in how many of them may be competitive athletes who train using performance metrics before and after transition..... you quickly see why a sample size of 8 isn't actually all that small relatively speaking.

 

[rick81721]

Has Dr. Harper published any other studies? I did a quick search but couldn't find anything else?

The study you mentioned is a very small study of eight individual, which says that "the eight runners had much slower race times in the female gender than as males." which is in line with what you are saying that taking hormone therapy does decrease your "output" compared with previous levels.

http://10ste93kec2i6oi6nlhmxd19.wpe...0_RaceTimesforTransgenderAthletes_FinalOF.pdf

I understand this is a very hard subject to study.

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions.

Agreed - very small study. Of note: 5 of the 8 improved their age graded performance, which is what really counts when discussing whether there is an advantage after transgender. Second point, none of the subjects were elite athletes - which would be more relevant to the discussion of advantages at higher levels of competition. The average male age grade was 68, which as a 5-10K runner is basically where I'm at - and I consider myself a chump.

 

[gmb3]

I think what's missing from that headline scenario is the word "first". Rachel is making headlines not because she's a trans woman but because she's the first trans woman to reach this level.

Ah, ok. I guess I glanced over the "first" part. I agree that makes it more news-worthy. But if trans women were more common in the sports (or total) world, and she wasn't the first, curious if you would still prefer "Trans" in the headline? (which i think you would based on your previous response about erasing). Obviously i can't truly imagine how it feels to be in your shoes (or body) and experience what you experience but for me, if i identified as the other gender, went through the process of transformation, I would want to be identified as the "new" gender and not have anyone know that I was Trans. Probably because i'm a very private person and don't share much about my personal life with others, but i'm assuming there are Trans people that feel the same way i do. I would hope those people would be "allowed" to keep their "transness" private. (Apologize for any incorrect or insensitive language, no harm intended).

 

[mstyer]

I need to post one correction. Joanna Harper is a medical physicist. I mistakenly referred to her as Dr. She was a consultant to the IOC Consensus Meeting on Sex Reassignment and Hyperandrogenism. That panel had quite a few PhD's on it. https://stillmed.olympic.org/Docume..._sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

For those curious, here are the guidelines as laid out by USA Cycling.

https://www.usacycling.org/about-us/governance/transgender-athletes-policy

 

[mstyer]

Ah, ok. I guess I glanced over the "first" part. I agree that makes it more news-worthy. But if trans women were more common in the sports (or total) world, and she wasn't the first, curious if you would still prefer "Trans" in the headline? (which i think you would based on your previous response about erasing). Obviously i can't truly imagine how it feels to be in your shoes (or body) and experience what you experience but for me, if i identified as the other gender, went through the process of transformation, I would want to be identified as the "new" gender and not have anyone know that I was Trans. Probably because i'm a very private person and don't share much about my personal life with others, but i'm assuming there are Trans people that feel the same way i do. I would hope those people would be "allowed" to keep their "transness" private. (Apologize for any incorrect or insensitive language, no harm intended).

There are plenty of us who prefer to live our lives in "stealth". There are others, like me, who lean towards advocacy through quiet visibility. There are some who are very openly trans. None of those are more correct than the others.

To your first question, compare how we talk about Jackie Robinson vs. other players of color in baseball today. It was remarkable when he was the first. It's just part of who they are now that participation is more common.

 

[stb222]

I think what's missing from that headline scenario is the word "first". Rachel is making headlines not because she's a trans woman but because she's the first trans woman to reach this level.

Your differentiation of marginalized groups shows your bias. I would ask you to gain a better understanding of what the word means before saying anything further.

mar·gin·al·ize

/ˈmärjənəˌlīz/

verb

past tense: marginalized; past participle: marginalized

1. treat (a person, group, or concept) as insignificant or peripheral.

I am well versed in the definition of what marginalized group means considering I just finished paying a 10 year old medical bill that was a result of a marginalized group.

Cycling is a marginalized group. Skating is a marginalized group. Girls skating is a further is a marginalized group. Not Drinking is a marginalized group. Riding outside is a marginalized group.

We are all special.

 

[Juggernaut]

There are plenty of us who prefer to live our lives in "stealth". There are others, like me, who lean towards advocacy through quiet visibility. There are some who are very openly trans. None of those are more correct than the others.

To your first question, compare how we talk about Jackie Robinson vs. other players of color in baseball today. It was remarkable when he was the first. It's just part of who they are now that participation is more common.

I’m not sure the it’s the best example given the time periods in question, but I get your point.

 

[seanrunnette]

Hi Morgan, thanks for taking the time to do this.
I have zero problem with your competing in the women's field, and I'm sorry that your very, very small part of the athletic community has come under fire for competing, and occasionally winning. Unfortunately this simple thing is being played out against a backdrop that's fairly volatile right now, so you're getting the full flame-thrower treatment, as the arguments are already at their full-thoated height elsewhere. Makes conversation difficult. I'm glad it's a bit quieter here anyway.
My takeaway from this discussion and others, as well as some extra-curricular reading, is that perceptions of other's advantages are sometimes simply unexamined assumptions, and they're not nearly as advantageous as assumed. (As a 6'8" tall guy, I'm supposedly very good at basketball, but not so much. Turns out my advantage is just more scaffolding to drag around. Who knew.)
Looking forward to meeting you at the races.

 

[Patrick]

quick biology just in case anyone is pondering: Fraternal twins have no more in common than any siblings with the same parents other than proximity of age. So i'm not sure the twin sister thing works. Similar age/body-type is the better comparison. Even "similar" boy/girl twins are subject to different environmental influences.
--
If i read it correctly up top, put in the time, get the reward applies. I think i can be swayed on the fairness question.
Esp from the drug perspective, which is designed to do what it is doing. Hopefully, they can minimize side effects as they improve.

my opinion: the response at the amateur level to a mid-pack racer may be different than the elites, or someone displaced from the elite team.

in my experience, some elites use any excuse they can for not winning, as any negative speak about their own performance is damaging (i know a few people who compete at
the front of ironman events)

What is the goto response beyond the science?
Does Rachel have to pull out the training log and show the work was put in? And that the levels
were maintained over time? (almost like a doping cycle, where the athlete is clean for competition?)
Is there added scrutiny? or is it the same level to prove that PEDs were not used?
-
in the spirit of fairness, would it be a concern that the trans elite racer might be forced to reduce T levels to that of a "typical woman" (quoted from story) when
it should be set at the levels of the typical elite racer?

 

[mstyer]

quick biology just in case anyone is pondering: Fraternal twins have no more in common than any siblings with the same parents other than proximity of age. So i'm not sure the twin sister thing works. Similar age/body-type is the better comparison. Even "similar" boy/girl twins are subject to different environmental influences.
--
If i read it correctly up top, put in the time, get the reward applies. I think i can be swayed on the fairness question.
Esp from the drug perspective, which is designed to do what it is doing. Hopefully, they can minimize side effects as they improve.

my opinion: the response at the amateur level to a mid-pack racer may be different than the elites, or someone displaced from the elite team.

in my experience, some elites use any excuse they can for not winning, as any negative speak about their own performance is damaging (i know a few people who compete at
the front of ironman events)

What is the goto response beyond the science?
Does Rachel have to pull out the training log and show the work was put in? And that the levels
were maintained over time? (almost like a doping cycle, where the athlete is clean for competition?)
Is there added scrutiny? or is it the same level to prove that PEDs were not used?
-
in the spirit of fairness, would it be a concern that the trans elite racer might be forced to reduce T levels to that of a "typical woman" (quoted from story) when
it should be set at the levels of the typical elite racer?

Help me out here.....can you distill this statement of your opinion down to the question you're asking me?

 

[Steve Vai]

Does anyone know if this scenario has played out the other way? A woman competing in the men's field? Seems like all we hear about is this way.

 

[Monkey Soup]

Everyone is different

In a word, no. There are a myriad of physical differences between people, whether it's height, flexibility, fast twitch or slow twitch, etc. that all could potentially constitute a competitive advantage or disadvantage depending on the sport. Nobody ever says that those differences are an unfair advantage though. On a personal level, once I started hormone replacement therapy my strength plummeted approximately 25% but I still have to haul my same 5'10" body up those hills. I get smoked by smaller riders on anything that involves climbing.

Everyone is different, and your personal example may not be representative of the larger population. Its just scientific fact males and females put on muscle mass and skeletal density differently as they grow and mature. As a result, men are taller and heavier than women on average. While you may have been of slight build, your friend Rachel started out much taller, bigger, and more muscular than the average woman. Even with a 25% loss in performance (which may be different with her because everyone is different), can you definitively say she didn't have an advantage? As a more extreme example, if 6'5", 207 pound Usain Bolt decided to undergo a transformation and sprint the 100 and 200M with the ladies, how can you say there's not advantage there? If the women's world record was broken, would it be fair?

Transgender folks should be allowed to compete, the passion for sport and competition transcends gender. I don't think a separate category should be created for transgender, this country is divided enough as it is through 45 years of a rotten political system creating division and entitlements to keep us at each others throats (a discussion for another day). Yet another category to separate us is wrong. However, lets not pretend that its a level playing field where athletic competition is concerned. Where we stand today with technology and science, it isn't. Someday through medical advances like genetic editing, etc. we may get there, but to say its all equal now will just alienate people before you can even start a conversation about it.