How the hell are we supposed to retire?

auntjemima said:
Just want to add on to this and the point you're replying to. Even if we totally eliminate child labor in the states, we are absolutely outsourcing it to other places in the world. Be it at the factory in *insert country that our goods come from*, or the even poorer country that *insert country where previous country gets its raw materials*. AKA, the "no ethical consumption under capitalism" argument.

Yes, and before I get shit for it there are no better systems. I think acting like it doesn't happen for the sake of "the economy" is silly though.
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I just hate you for getting the bike stand lol

You can't outsource everything and things that are outsourced still should be subjected to our laws.
 
Not Rick said:
There are tons of barriers to starting new things why not take advantage of what you already helped build. If staring a new thing was the best path to success you wouldn't see corporate take overs. I've gone through 3 attempts in the last 10 years of working, if billionaires are doing it from the outside why not try from the inside.
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I see it differently, the person who starts their own company does take all the risk, hence the big reward, whether that's a ton cash, or possibly just setting the best working conditions and parameters, and not having a boss. A corporate take over and starting your own thing are entirely different things.
Not Rick said:
If I could pull it off I would why not
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Couldn't agree more, why the fuck not.
 
Patrick said:
You used the word fair. I said they are stacked to benefit the high earners.

--------------------------------

Yes the business of business is to "make money" or "maximize shareholder value"
but is that quarter over quarter?
Or is it the NPV of future earnings?

This is where executives have to decide between making their max quarterly bonus,
and having a company around a couple years later after all the talent leaves for a better deal.
Back to my example of limiting raises or bonuses, and not being market competitive. ISOs are interesting, in that everyone can
share in the longer term success - but not everyone can think that far out.

There is always the cycle of having one CEO squeeze all the money out, and get paid big,
then bring in another to save the company, and get paid big.
repeat.
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Related fake news from CNN

https://web.archive.org/web/2021103...economy/musk-world-hunger-wfp-intl/index.html
 
Related comment, if billionaires are taxed on unrealized gains I wonder what impact this will have on 401k and other retirement holdings.

Maybe this will drive them to invest their holdings rather than hold them.

Now if they're no longer holding will they sell more and drive prices down or will musk llc hold his wealth and he will no longer hold wealth in a traditional sense.
 
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Not Rick said:
Related comment, if billionaires are taxed on unrealized gains I wonder what impact this will have on 401k and other retirement holdings.

Maybe this will drive them to invest their holdings rather than hold them.

Now if they're no longer holding will they sell more and drive prices down or will musk llc hold his wealth and he will no longer hold wealth in a traditional sense.
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Uh.. you don't think their holdings that have unrealized gains are invested?

If there is an unrealized gains tax it would be investments sold to pay the tax bills.
 
Not Rick said:
Related comment, if billionaires are taxed on unrealized gains I wonder what impact this will have on 401k and other retirement holdings.

Maybe this will drive them to invest their holdings rather than hold them.

Now if they're no longer holding will they sell more and drive prices down or will musk llc hold his wealth and he will no longer hold wealth in a traditional sense.
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I saw this plan, scares the shit out of me. Paying taxes on unrealized gains? Can you imagine having to had pay taxes this way, back in Jan/Feb 2020, and then March happened with the stock market? I am all for EVERYBODY paying their share of the taxes, but that's ridiculous. All those billionaires that everybody wants to pay more in taxes drive the same roads we do, have the same police force, fire departments, schools, and for the most part, pay a shitload more in taxes in 1 year, than I will pay in my lifetime. Yes, there are some ways to get around taxes, but income is income, and taxed as such.

I know, I know, they get to write off this and that, but bottom line, most of them pay way more money in taxes than we do.
 
roc said:
I saw this plan, scares the shit out of me. Paying taxes on unrealized gains? Can you imagine having to had pay taxes this way, back in Jan/Feb 2020, and then March happened with the stock market? I am all for EVERYBODY paying their share of the taxes, but that's ridiculous. All those billionaires that everybody wants to pay more in taxes drive the same roads we do, have the same police force, fire departments, schools, and for the most part, pay a shitload more in taxes in 1 year, than I will pay in my lifetime. Yes, there are some ways to get around taxes, but income is income, and taxed as such.

I know, I know, they get to write off this and that, but bottom line, most of them pay way more money in taxes than we do.
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Yep, just a sideshow and a silly attempt to claim a multi-trillion dollar spending plan is paid for. Ridiculous idea
 
roc said:
I saw this plan, scares the shit out of me. Paying taxes on unrealized gains? Can you imagine having to had pay taxes this way, back in Jan/Feb 2020, and then March happened with the stock market? I am all for EVERYBODY paying their share of the taxes, but that's ridiculous. All those billionaires that everybody wants to pay more in taxes drive the same roads we do, have the same police force, fire departments, schools, and for the most part, pay a shitload more in taxes in 1 year, than I will pay in my lifetime. Yes, there are some ways to get around taxes, but income is income, and taxed as such.

I know, I know, they get to write off this and that, but bottom line, most of them pay way more money in taxes than we do.
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I am not defending this plan, in any way.

But they do not pay the same tax % that the middle class do and never will. Obviously they pay more but % wise it is much less. There are too many places legally hide gains as many of them don’t claim a pay check, which is always the issues.
 
stb222 said:
I am not defending this plan, in any way.

But they do not pay the same tax % that the middle class do and never will. Obviously they pay more but % wise it is much less. There are too many places legally hide gains as many of them don’t claim a pay check, which is always the issues.
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100% agreed. But in real dollars, they are more than paying their share.
If they own a company and can afford a private jet, they can pretty much use that tax free. But the rest of us scrubs can also invest our money and only pay the capital gains, which, I think is fair. That money was taxed at some point before it was invested.
In reality, none of it matters much to me, I’ll never be a billionaire, but I don’t want to pay taxes on unrealized gains. Quite frankly, if I have to pay a shitload of taxes in a year I’ll be one happy guy, that just means I made a ton of money that year.
 
roc said:
100% agreed. But in real dollars, they are more than paying their share.
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Don't agree.

roc said:
If they own a company and can afford a private jet, they can pretty much use that tax free.
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C level officers get 1099s for personal use of company planes every year. Unless the CFO is Allan Weaselberg.

roc said:
But the rest of us scrubs can also invest our money and only pay the capital gains, which, I think is fair.
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Intuitively, I agree, however, it would seem that billionaires should be kicking in more than they do. Peter Thiel's Roth IRA deal (or whatever it is) is stunning, but the wealthiest people in the country pay far less taxes (i.e. a lower average rate by certain more comprehensive measures of earnings) than you would think. That doesn't even include the wealth tax idea.

That being said, I think AOC is pretty hot in an economic policy kind of way.

roc said:
That money was taxed at some point before it was invested.
In reality, none of it matters much to me, I’ll never be a billionaire, but I don’t want to pay taxes on unrealized gains. Quite frankly, if I have to pay a shitload of taxes in a year I’ll be one happy guy, that just means I made a ton of money that year.
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#me2
 
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