Discussion: Is cyclocross dying?

Norm said:
Assignment #2 for Pearl

Mac-only.

Chart the 35+ and 45+ over the past 5 years.

I also think as the pointy end gets pointier, people want to race less. It's not fun to be in the best shape of your life and lose by 11:00 in a 40 minute race.
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maybe its been mentioned in the later posts, short on time today. But the 35 and 45 age range is interesting. I had my kids in my early 30s and by 35 was up to my elbows with kid activities. Kids get older, need you less and I begin looking for ways to kill time and also lose the weight you may have gained over the ten yrs. For those who raced prior to kids and marriage, it's very likely that you'll stay in the game one way or another. Very casual riders like myself, could very easily drop off and maybe get back to riding some time later. Also at 45, most have peaked at their careers and are likely looking for more work life balance.
 
@lancerracer I really really have come to love your course. This was my 4th year racing it and each year it has become better and better. This year was simply awesome. You guys do a great job trickling down awesome features and adding new challenging ones.

ALSO I must add how wonderful the venue was to navigate by foot! The straight shot of course crossings from reg to the unofficial tent camp was AWESOME. I forget if it's like that every year but damn I noticed it this year and it ruled. From those crossings you could basically get anywhere. Bravo.

One place that could use a crossing would be by the playground so you could get to the bathroom that's down there from the tents more directly. (no points lost as the tent grove wasn't in your plans!)

Overall A+, Thank you!!

@Norm, As for the 3/4 at the end of the day - when I raced that cat is was meh. I already commit my whole day to CX every weekend so it wasn't a big deal for me. I could see why others, especially back in the field may not want to kill a whole day.

I bet the killer B's are more affected by the venue being empty then the Elite field. Having the 3 race mid-day at NECX raced is electric. Everyone sticking around at the venue make those races exciting to participate in whether you are in first or 71st. The scene is larger in comparison but I think it scales for us is still relevant.

The UCI guys are going to show up and flog themselves into oblivion no matter who is standing on the sides. Those dudes are there for points. Cheering is great but they will line up whether of not there is a crowd to watch. I say MAC should move the killer B's back before Womans ELITE.
 
@lancerracer - I also noticed the straight shot of course crossings up to the top. Well done on those.

@The Heckler - I think the Bs racing to an empty stadium is a mind-fuck. I also think your B class is going to be the biggest beer-and-heckle demographic. Get them off the course and on the sidelines sooner than later.

@Dominique asked me if I was planning to race next year and I said yes. If they moved the 45+ to the last race I wouldn't do a single one. NFW would I even consider it. I think pro should always be last. As you say, they come to race no matter what. And then you will have more people to watch the pro race.

@pearl

Assignment @whatever

The other races that were held Saturday - what were the B numbers for those? I mean in 1 sense you can explain the lower reg numbers away but it makes no sense that the Bs were hit far harder than any other class. What is the spread is that other race that Keith did?
 
1sh0t1b33r said:
Bubblecross singletrack is cool AF.
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Truth. When I started racing a BubbleCross type course was the norm. Mixed terrain. Tire choice was impossible. Now it's all just tape in a grass field.

The bigger problem I believe is how much god damn money these venues charge for a race. Jesus. You pay thousands of dollars to USAC for what exactly? If the Promoters were able to lower entry fees and still have an ass-ton of cash to throw at an event do you know how sick races would be!!?? USAC needs to die. Numbers and membership needs to drop until they die. No one show up to any USAC races until they die. Make it happen and races will be great again.
 
jimvreeland said:
When I started racing a BubbleCross type course was the norm.
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So when the old-timers like us used to race, it was like this (according to cross results) in 2011:

Hillbilly Hustle - possibly the course with the most character ever - now dead
Westwood day 1 - still today a solid course - venue is gone as of this year
Westwood day 2 - series is 3-for-3 now - venue is gone as of this year
Hidden Valley - original Bubble cross venue. Solid, not amazing but solid. - venue moved
Greystone - this was the first year that Marty's got into it. Course was ok at best - venue moved
Sussex 1 - this one is your standard dirt crit mostly
Sussex 2 - dirt crit day 2
Horseshoe #1 - one of the best venues in NJ - now dead
Horseshoe #2 - hells yes - now dead

I think there may have been some deep south NJ races that are now defunct. I never did those.

So of the 9 races listed above, I would say that 5 course were awesome and a 6th was good. So 2/3 of the series was run on courses that were fun/interesting/challenging.

Of those 9 races only 1 (a single Sussex day) remains.
 
lancerracer said:
The numbers have gone down in most of the fields, but the biggest drop off is clearly in the 3/4s. The "killer Bs" used to be a great race with huge fields, but the numbers aren't there anymore.
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Last race of the day... Im able to do the Masters so I'd rather work to be pack fodder then to do the last race and compete for a top 5-10. If the B's were earlier, I'd do that but the race time is really a turn off.
 
Norm said:
@The Heckler - I think the Bs racing to an empty stadium is a mind-fuck. I also think your B class is going to be the biggest beer-and-heckle demographic. Get them off the course and on the sidelines sooner than later.
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I'd like to add to the sentiment to move the B's earlier in the day. Moving from a 9:00 AM race start for the 4/5's to 3:30 PM race start for the 3/4's is a total bummer. I liked the fact that I can do my race, stick around and watch some action, and be home by noon. Changing that to making it a 10+ hour affair and not getting home until 7:00 PM at the earliest is a big adjustment. Can I sign a pledge that I'll promise to stick around and heckle my heart out (and god forbid maybe even drink my first course side beer) if the B's get moved to 1:15 PM?
 
jimvreeland said:
Truthfully, the NJ courses have all become exactly the same and quite frankly, boring. They're all just grass crits at this point with no interesting scenery, obstacles, or terrain. Westwood is kinda cool but not as cool as the original with the sketchy wooden stairs. The run-up at Phillipsburg? Amphitheatre of Pain? The ball field in the snow? Mercer County? Cross used to be cool as f@ck. Now everyone whines to the USAC Official if there's a root in the course.
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Caffeinated Cross is the most interesting NJ Cup course year after year. (Disclaimer: aside from maybe Bubble which I never get to race because of scheduling conflicts.) This year, Caffeinated got a little screwed by Hippo being scheduled the day before.
 
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Racing the 3/4 on Sunday at 3:30 was strange. Granted, I had a shitty race, but finishing with nobody around was a bit strange. Nutrition for 3:30pm vs 9:00am (or so) is definitely an issue.
 
I think one think that would be interesting is how many of the 4/5's, specially the 5's are repeat and how many are new for each race. Meaning, how many people are just trying it out / sticking with it / or are content with just staying in 5 to race for fun.
 
Rich W said:
Caffeinated Cross is the most interesting NJ Cup course year after year. (Disclaimer: aside from maybe Bubble which I never get to race because of scheduling conflicts.) This year, Caffeinated got a little screwed by Hippo being scheduled the day before.
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I have to agree, caffeinated and bubble were great courses with alittle of everything. I know some people were complaining that caffeinated was too technical which I disagree.

Part of the problem with nj racing is there is no incentive to do the cup other then being able to say you won the points, if you look at pa winners get free entry to all the cup races next year. If the nj cup did leaders jersey like garden state cup and something like pa's free entry to next years races that might get more people to come because they wouldn't want to lose points if the high up in the ranking. I wish they would have done races the weekend of charm city because there was nothing else that weekend and I think a lot of people would have raced locally instead of driving 2-3 hrs or not raced at all that weekend.
 
Interesting... I vaguely remember someone mentioning free series entry cause of winning some division or something. A Leaders Jersey is a good idea. I think. You could pair these two ideas with one registration fee up front for all the races. That way, at least there's some coin up front for the jerseys. Caffeinated and Bubble are both great courses. Some variations each year to keep it fresh.

I raced Horseshoe the last year they had it. That was my first season racing. Man that was a fun course. Muddy too.
 
Cyclocross isn't dying. But it could.

The general progression as I see it goes something like this. Typically folks enter as a Cat 4/5, and move up the ranks until their skills or fitness plateaus or they get old. Some find a long-term home in Masters racing, some keep moovin' on up to elites, and some end up as career Killer B's. As long as there is a steady influx of new racers to fill this pipeline, it makes up for the natural attrition that is bound to happen but it's a delicate ecosystem of sorts

Doomsday Scenario 1: The pipeline runs dry. New bodies are key. If, for whatever reason, people get turned off and don't give the sport a try the numbers will eventually start to dwindle. There are a few factors making the sport less attractive to new racer and a big one is cost. $25 entries used to be the norm and now it seems that $40-50 is more and more common. Add license fees and you're talking about non-trivial $/minute costs. Having organized races, I know the economics and even at those prices nobody's really making money off these events so I don't blame promoters for charging more. Eventually, the high costs of racing are going to deter newcomers.

Doomsday scenario 2: Attrition. People always leave the sport due to "natural causes" (e.g. babies, work, drug habits, dirt bikes, etc...0 but there are some larger trends that may accelerate the rate of attrition if left unchecked. In no particular order:
*The Fun Patrol. (e.g. handups are not a crime).
*Wrong mix of fields. If people don't have a place to race where they feel challenged but not utterly hopeless they will leave. I have long advocated for more races based on strict categories instead of by age. 35+ year olds are young enough to race with Elites or B's IMHO. So are 40 year olds. Leave masters racing to folks who legitimately don't want to race against young bucks. This would make room for more Women's category-based fields (i.e. a Cat 3 only NJ field or a 2/3 MAC field).
*Promoter neglect - I completely agree with previous comments about courses getting tiresome after 96 race laps. It's not particularly difficult to change up a course from year to year or to bring some additional production value to an event.

Doomsday Scenario 3: Location. Location. Location. Speaking from experience, it's really friggin' difficult to get permits to hold races in NJ. Without venues, we are dead. This is why MTBNJ doesn't host a CX race anymore. First year events always get fewer participants and it seems that there are more one-and-done events because you just can't make the $'s work with the cost of permits, insurance and port-a-pottys. Without good locations, the courses are probably going to suck no matter who designs it.

Big UCI events are fun to race and fun to attend but I am sad that grassroots local racing seems to be taking a hit. I'm a big fan of local racing and wish we could make it something that isn't a consolation prize. Keep it fun, keep it approachable & affordable, create a good atmosphere and make the courses hard. With this combo, there's no way cross will die because the racing is just too fun.
 
I'm sort of going back to the underlying assumption of this thread. As a numbers gal, I would argue that looking at the progression of reg #s for a given race isn't a good metric to look at, because there are now more races on the calendar. There are more options for racing closer to home, and also in a lot of cases successful single-day races have turned into double weekends. Heck, even HPCX was a single race as recently as 2013. Also, a few new fields were introduced in the last few years - Specifically Cat 5 for men, and then there's also that wacky Cat 4/5 40+ field, which no doubt has stolen folks from other fields.

A better number to evaluate - although not as easy to come to - is racer/days, regardless of venue or field. I don't have those numbers and it would take more than just Crossresults to tabulate, simply because Crossresults didn't have such a firm foothold three or even two years ago.

I don't have ANY any data to support this, but my feeling is that total racer/days has increased but the increase has been FAR outpaced by growth in the # of venues, # of races, and # of fields. So the total number of racers per field has gone down - which is why everyone FEELS like CX is dead.
 
Reading this thread is interesting. In a way, similar to the DH racing world. Although DH is a bit different - there it seems there is a big influx or guys and gals riding DH at various venues, but actual racer attendance is way down from when I was first racing 15+ years ago. Even the bigger races like the World Cup at Windham and the ProGRT events don't draw anywhere near the number of amateur racers that would be at a Plattekill series event, much less a NORBA race. Some blame it on the rise of enduro, but numbers were down long before that started becoming popular.

I've only done one cross race - purely by accident, and that was about 25 years ago when the promoter opened it up to mtn bikers. This was at a winery or orchard or some sort of farm up in Bucks Co somewhere. Knowing even less about 'cross than I did about mtn bike racing (not much), I was totally a fish out of water. "Where is the single track? Why are these boards in the middle of the trail? Why are most of the other racers on road bikes?" (having no idea what a cross-bike was) And it was muddy as hell, although the elevated stay Head mtn bike I had back then was good for that.

All that said, I don't dismiss the idea of doing some cross races in the future (after buying a real cross bike - again...), although I'm sure I'd do terrible. Mainly just for the training.
 
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Whoa, missed this thread earlier in the week.

I kinda see both sides. Reg #'s seem to be down but I don't think cross is totally dying. I'm not old enough to race Masters and I'm not very close with many people that do to gain their perspective; but for my circle of friends and fellow racers, I would blame the MAC 2/3/4 switch to 3/4 some, an increase in the number of race options and locations for the rest.

When I first started racing cross there were tons of people at the front end of the 2/3/4 field that would still be there to this day if USAC hadn't implemented the forced upgrade rules and MAC hadn't changed the Killer B's to just a 3/4. A bunch of us got auto-upgraded to race the UCI races, the ones that are old enough went to the Masters races, and some just said "F that I'm not spending $100 on a UCI license and $45 on race reg to get my head kicked in and pulled with 2-3 laps to go" and only do local races or just don't race cross anymore.

I think the MAC schedule change was a wise decision on their part because the B race would always have the largest crowds, and it just ensures that all of those people would be there during the UCI race. I know it's a niche sport here but seeing videos of highlights when there is literally 3 people watching was kind of weird. I don't quite know if it was entirely effective though, because most of those cat 3's are getting all their race prep and warmup in while the UCI race is going on. Most B racers I know are more hyped on not having to wake up at 5:30AM to get to their race, so being gone for most of the day and getting home at 7pm are fine just trade-offs of that.

I went to Cheshire instead of HPCX Day 1 because that course is one of my favorites. Half of it is held on what I think is a cross country running course, basically nice and wide single track with lots of fast down hills and brutal up-hills and rocks galore. The rest of it is well thought out off camber grass stuff and a mini whirlybird in and out of a volleyball court sand pit. Real good course atmosphere that encourages getting rowdy on "heckle hill".
I haven't been training much this year (even less than last year), so I'm kind of after fun and technical courses that I can use skill and finesse to fake my way through an hour of racing instead of pedaling power.

HPCX is a really awesome course and SO close to NYC (and really easy to get to from everywhere else in the Northeast) but it was also at the end of a really large block of big UCI races so I'm sure some people probably needed a break to reset. I skipped day 1 last year because I was definitely feeling the burnout factor, then I got my first UCI lead lap finish on day 2.

Especially with the people in the NYC scene I feel like quality courses and a fun atmosphere will get racers to keep coming back. Closeness and proximity is great, but I feel like driving 2+ hours to a race is just kind of an expectation we all have and it's a nice change when we pull up in an hour or less. When Supercross announced it would be added to the NECX series at the end of last year and all the New England racers were complaining that they would have to drive 3 hours to get to it I rolled my eyes so hard they almost got stuck like that.
 
As the sport has "matured", it has become impossible to just wing it and expect a good result (regardless of how you define “good”). I think the longing for technical courses is a longing for those days when technical skills could trump fitness. Because technical proficiency has also generally increased, I don’t we will be able to fully recapture those days.

At the same time, isn’t the draw of CX the one-on-one, elbow-to-elbow, passing back and forth battles with your fellow competitors? That hasn’t changed (I don’t think). You can battle no matter where you are in the pack and there are great battles to be had regardless of course difficulty.

Maybe the novelty has just worn off. Is the call for more technical/interesting courses like a junkie who needs a bigger and bigger hit to get the same high?

[Feel free to tell me that I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about. After all, my favorite bike ride consists of going up and down the Tourne 10x.]
 
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