I've noticed more and more of the cheater lines recently. Particularly at jungle and skylands trail and on Sunday I saw lots on the switchbacks from the lake on cannonball going up to skyline drive. I'm a below average rider but I walk or retry a section when I mess up. I don't create a go around. Why can't people ride the trails as intended? Is strava to blame? People wanting to win a race on the Internet so they cheat a little? Lets please ride the trails as intended people.
Can we stop with the "cheater" lines?
- Thread starter wilks
- Start date
It's the 29ers -- they can't turn on tight twisty stuff, so they just plow through. 
No its not, cheater lines have existed long before strava. The lewis morris race loop was a famous spot for them. People will often choose the line that will allow them to maintain their momentum, and once one person does it, the army follows.
This.
While I don't think anyone should give up the fight to keep the trails well-defined and narrow, I think this is a bit of a losing battle in some ways. This has been a complaint of people for many years.
Also, if you have a park where there's a race, like LM specifically, people will go there and race the race loop. They're going to try to find the fastest lines because, well, they want to win. As far as the non-race locations, I blame Capitalism.
i blame strava, iphones and the internet. electronic devices have destroyed mountain biking as we know it.
oh and lycra too. whenever i ride in the woods my lycra pants force me to take short cuts. in fact, if i don't make or take a shortcut, they'll actually fly off my body, cut a new shortcut, eat a gel pack, leave the wrapper on the ground and then fly back on me, all the while filling my brain with generalizations about other cyclists who don't look like me using ESP. this all happens in seconds. its amazing to witness.
i've seen cheater lines and go arounds since i've been on a mountain bike. it's tough to fix and prevent.
98% of most good trail is singletrack, which leaves the remaining 2% to be turns and obstacles that have cheater lines. fact. don't let the 2% be your focus.
oh and lycra too. whenever i ride in the woods my lycra pants force me to take short cuts. in fact, if i don't make or take a shortcut, they'll actually fly off my body, cut a new shortcut, eat a gel pack, leave the wrapper on the ground and then fly back on me, all the while filling my brain with generalizations about other cyclists who don't look like me using ESP. this all happens in seconds. its amazing to witness.
i've seen cheater lines and go arounds since i've been on a mountain bike. it's tough to fix and prevent.
98% of most good trail is singletrack, which leaves the remaining 2% to be turns and obstacles that have cheater lines. fact. don't let the 2% be your focus.
Blair
Well-Known Member
It's the 29ers -- they can't turn on tight twisty stuff, so they just plow through.
It's the fastest who get paid, and the fastest who get laid. If you ain't first you're last.
1speed
Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
The obvious solution to this problem is to bench-cut all singeltrack into a very narrow ridge where one side is solid stone and the other a precipitous drop. Then -- and this is the key -- load the f*ck out of the narrow trail with technical features and let natural selection play its vital role. If these are built well enough, there would not even be need for ongoing trail maintenance, which is good because trail maintenance sessions could now be used to clean up the skeletons of those who didn't clean it at the bottom of the associated ravine. I do not understand why this apparent solve has not been tried already, but ... there it is.
Yes, very frustrating. Used to be limited to the more technical parks...Now I see this at less technical parks like Lew Mo and 6MR. In fact, just YESTERDAY...I was stopped on top of a small hill at 6MR adjusting my helmet. The section I stopped at had some exposed roots, but nothing nasty. I was off the trail, so riders had plenty of room to pass. Along comes a guy up the hill towards me, sees me, we say hi, and then he proceeds to completely avoid the rooty section and cut through a short section off to the side of a tree bordering the rooty section. I look down at the section after he's gone and can see he isn't the first to have done it (lot of leaf compression on the ground cover).
I looked around for the nearest large-ish log and promptly put it down lengthwise on the cheater line to hopefully disuade others. But it boogles the mind that, despite purchasing and riding bikes that are built for these trails (suspension, gears, etc), some riders just want to take the easy way around things. Isn't part of the appeal of mountain biking the challenge of tackling uneven terrain? :hmmm:
I looked around for the nearest large-ish log and promptly put it down lengthwise on the cheater line to hopefully disuade others. But it boogles the mind that, despite purchasing and riding bikes that are built for these trails (suspension, gears, etc), some riders just want to take the easy way around things. Isn't part of the appeal of mountain biking the challenge of tackling uneven terrain? :hmmm:
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I tend to agree with you about the bench cutting technique. The section of trail the OP is referring may date back before we had figured this out. This is also why very few quads venture out into the bike trails in JH. However, I would rather use the extra TM time to build new trails. I find that on real steep terrain, a wider tread (3 feet) can keep less experienced riders safely on the trail, if the trail is supposed to be for mixed levels.
mwlikesbikes
Well-Known Member
I blame President Obama & Miley Cyrus.
I would put this in the category of hopeless concerns akin to wishing people wouldn't spit gum on to the sidewalk or throw cigarette butts out of a car... People are people, they range from assholes to clueless to ignorant to just not giving a shit.... I say ride the trail in the manner you care to, fix the trail where it is truly being damaged (as already suggested) and, most importantly, try not worry about things you can not possibly control...
good post.
I went down cannonball on Sunday afternoon, and i actually had a little trouble actually finding the original line in a few of the tricky spots - if you are like me and can only look like 10 feet ahead on a trail like this, all you see is rocks with nothing to define the trail anymore - I dont ride this trail that often, but seems way worse than the last time i was there.
I use strava, but I really dont see what the point is of posting a good time if you are not really capable of riding a hard trail to begin with. I'd rather post a shitty time and actually ride the trail.
I went down cannonball on Sunday afternoon, and i actually had a little trouble actually finding the original line in a few of the tricky spots - if you are like me and can only look like 10 feet ahead on a trail like this, all you see is rocks with nothing to define the trail anymore - I dont ride this trail that often, but seems way worse than the last time i was there.
I use strava, but I really dont see what the point is of posting a good time if you are not really capable of riding a hard trail to begin with. I'd rather post a shitty time and actually ride the trail.
ninja4life
Member
Really!, i finally KOM a trail, and now the trail is in question.... I promise I didn't take any cheater lines. LOL
http://www.strava.com/activities/78194745
this happens at all the parks there are cheater lines in TW that cut maybe 10 foot of trail off what really bothers me is when people cut the mountain laurel to make the trails easier...if someone can't make a tight section they should just practice until they get better not modify the trails. But I think Norm is right we will never stop this type of stuff.
haha, although i didnt know i had it, you stole my kom on the longer one!!! cheater!! if i had a downhill kom, then no one must ride that segment...
did one of the quads i saw on sunday take you back up to skyline? mfers were riding the singletrack on lower cannonball to avoid the big blowdowns. crazy dangerous on a crowded sunday.
Off The Road Again
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, I try never to go on the cheater lines. Most trails are built to avoid premature erosion of the trail, and the cheater trails excellerate the prcess. Stay on the trail- if that's too difficult, pick a new hobby, you're destroying good trails and contributing to trail closures.
nomad
Member
By the top of Skyline the switchback climb just passed the stream up to the paved road is what wilks is talking about. The turns closer to the top are super rocky and its a brutal climb with some nice technical sections. The cheater lines are on the inside to avoid having to navigate and work the turns wide into the rocks as intended when the trail was rerouted a few years back. This is one of the best climbs in Ringwood and what ever shape I am in it still hurts at the top.
The cheaters know who they are and pretty much avoid all the fun stuff these parks have to offer anyway so they are missing out on what riding these trails is all about.
Wilks doesn't make most of the stuff but he doesn't cheat either and ninja doesn't use his brakes so he can KOM down but never up
funny story icebreaker-gotta just shake your head at that one
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
I blame you Lycra-clad, gel sucking fudge packers. Going up the red switchback climb in Ringwood to yellow, there are cheater lines cutting the switchbacks. I blame this on Strava because those turns aren't too technical. Actually had a stranger stop me on that descent once to kill my Strava time (that I didn't even have on). He admitted it, and thought he was funny. He will think twice before he does it again.
And I blame you self-righteous, "all mountain" wannabe, overweight, posers for taking the cheater lines because you're too out of shape to take the right line.