Biggest crash in stock market history?

[Johnny Utah]

And most importantly figure out if your college major is going to be economically viable or if something like the trades would make more sense.

Amen to this - it is criminal what the education system is doing to our youth. I know people who have student loans for a bachelor’s & masters degree amounting to $250k for a job that has a median salary of $55k in NJ annually. There is little chance they will be able to repay that in their life from that job. If a Bank did that it would be considered a predatory loan.

Funny how most of the Main Street banks got out of students loans in the last 15 years. I wonder why.

 

[Patrick]

I will say, personal finance is something that's never really taught in schools which is criminal. There should be some basis of being able to budget and do your taxes leaving high school.

And most importantly figure out if your college major is going to be economically viable or if something like the trades would make more sense.

There is a required study in financial literacy. In Somerville it is self paced.
I believe there are unit tests. It is not reviewed in class.
Probably 1 thing the kids shouldn't cheat in.

Financial Literacy for High School Students | Free Course

EVERFI's free high school financial literacy course helps students manage their personal finances, from applying for financial aid to establishing credit.

everfi.com

Gotta follow your passion, even if it isn't a highest paying career - just don't generate ivy league debt to get there.

 

[xc62701]

There is a required study in financial literacy. In Somerville it is self paced.
I believe there are unit tests. It is not reviewed in class.
Probably 1 thing the kids shouldn't cheat in.

Financial Literacy for High School Students | Free Course

EVERFI's free high school financial literacy course helps students manage their personal finances, from applying for financial aid to establishing credit.

everfi.com

Gotta follow your passion, even if it isn't a highest paying career - just don't generate ivy league debt to get there.

Same. Financial literacy is taught and required in my school. I enjoyed teaching that class. For some reason though the upper level kids are taught in the business department and the lower level in the math department. Not sure why that is.

 

[John the Plumber]

I do agree with you on the fact that we need people for these jobs - we used to use H2B for that - now we just open the border? I used to run ten commercial landscape crews in the city for property management and that was the way it worked twenty years ago, H2B that is. Those workers, while not citizens were incentivized to pay taxes and would work towards their citizenship. I guess we have Fawked those people now.

We also have a legal way of bringing people in. We are bypassing people on a waiting list for people that jump the boarder. If I tried that at a local restaurant where I need a reservation I am pretty sure that won’t work. Definitely does not work at the DMV either.

The current border policy is not complying with our laws. Why do I need to pay $200 for a passport when we are allowing people to just walk in? Further - if there are so many jobs available for these people why are the cities screaming they cannot handle them? We need to house these people - our tax dollars are covering their hotels rooms in addition to many others things - further they are occupying low income housing which further drives the housing crisis.

I have yet to meet anyone that favors these policies that has taken immigrants in. Have you? Have your hired any of these people - if you have not - then why? I get the morality thing to help these people out - but I have yet to meet someone that has opened their own doors up. Someone else will take care of it - right?

I pay taxes, these people don’t. Anyway I don’t have to pay taxes anymore because I am pretty sure my tax dollars are covering this nonsense.

Does this mean TSA is going away?

I do agree it is very difficult to send them back, once they are here - they are here. Why not do this legally under the system the way it is setup?

Further - for the jobs you speak of. Local towns know the illegals do not have insurance, pay permits etc. so rather site them they let infractions go as they would be following a ghost once they hit the court system - yet the tax payer that operates in these industries pays the price. Higher insurance, higher license fees and additional scrutiny. We are a country/society of tax payers/citizens but this punishes our own.

I agree with everything you just said.

 

[Dave Taylor]

If they didn’t advertise stupid heloc loans and second mortgages to buy a pool on tv we’d be fine. This country advertises debt as a good thing. New cars are the biggest depreciating asset there is and you can finance them for 10 years.

 

[John the Plumber]

I do agree with you on the fact that we need people for these jobs - we used to use H2B for that - now we just open the border? I used to run ten commercial landscape crews in the city for property management and that was the way it worked twenty years ago, H2B that is. Those workers, while not citizens were incentivized to pay taxes and would work towards their citizenship. I guess we have Fawked those people now.

We also have a legal way of bringing people in. We are bypassing people on a waiting list for people that jump the boarder. If I tried that at a local restaurant where I need a reservation I am pretty sure that won’t work. Definitely does not work at the DMV either.

The current border policy is not complying with our laws. Why do I need to pay $200 for a passport when we are allowing people to just walk in? Further - if there are so many jobs available for these people why are the cities screaming they cannot handle them? We need to house these people - our tax dollars are covering their hotels rooms in addition to many others things - further they are occupying low income housing which further drives the housing crisis.

I have yet to meet anyone that favors these policies that has taken immigrants in. Have you? Have your hired any of these people - if you have not - then why? I get the morality thing to help these people out - but I have yet to meet someone that has opened their own doors up. Someone else will take care of it - right?

I pay taxes, these people don’t. Anyway I don’t have to pay taxes anymore because I am pretty sure my tax dollars are covering this nonsense.

Does this mean TSA is going away?

I do agree it is very difficult to send them back, once they are here - they are here. Why not do this legally under the system the way it is setup?

Further - for the jobs you speak of. Local towns know the illegals do not have insurance, pay permits etc. so rather site them they let infractions go as they would be following a ghost once they hit the court system - yet the tax payer that operates in these industries pays the price. Higher insurance, higher license fees and additional scrutiny. We are a country/society of tax payers/citizens but this punishes our own.

I agree with everything you just said. This a one off conversation I had with a local pizza shop owner, she said " that they were only approving visa with people who had college degrees ." She was told next year would be better.

 

[Patrick]

This really doesn’t affect the middle class 50 y/o plus white guy that is in the money and content with his house. It sure as hell affects the younger ones that just upgraded to starter home or from starter home with 6% plus mortgages and 2 $800 + car payments. I feel people are in the FOMO point and it can go quite a bit more up before it crashes. People are buying a $700k home that was $350k 4 years ago and hoping it is $1.4 mil in 4 years and they can refi at 2%. I don’t see that whole scenario coming together.

This has happened before. Interest-only mortgages entered at market peaks go upside-down.
Same with variable rate with teaser first term. The only way i would do that is the first term is 5-7 years.
(having learned my lesson many years ago.)

Other great lessons - don't buy remote vacation property (ie colorado ski resort, betting on rental income)
Investment art work - I need Peter Max to kick, maybe i'll get my money back, but i doubt it,
In fact, don't buy anything that isn't involved in everyday life if you can rent it.
Don't lease a car unless you can expense it (that is the whole point of any leasing agreement)

For the newbie:
Learn how to do a spackle repair and paint a room when just starting out. This isn't just about changing the color.
It makes the room yours - walk into something you created. That good feeling. Don't like the color, gets old,
Paint it again.

@Johnny Utah - I agree with the immigration policy thing. My co did F-1 (student) and H-1 to green card hiring.
These are skilled workers (tech), and the process was strictly monitored. Hearings, paperwork, reviews, lots of lawyers.
Everyone gained in the end. Trailing spouses were an issue, sometimes here illegally, they couldn't be in the legal workforce.

I'm not sure what the right number is - the migrant farm worker community in the west seems to be well organized, legal.
They need a legal path - and not displace those who got in line to do it right.

More and more condos are going up - rent controlled and market. It this the relief (increased supply) on the upward pricing?
Driving along 287 in the Piscataway area, they are clearing a huge lot to add more housing (already have some close to move-in.)
Right on the highway, no sound wall.

 

[xmonger]

The fake money system - The Quash

In this episode I discuss the fake money system. If you like The Quash then go to patreon.com/theQuash and become a member. You will get the education o...

the-quash.captivate.fm

Worth a listen, imo.

 

[Dave Taylor]

This has happened before. Interest-only mortgages entered at market peaks go upside-down.
Same with variable rate with teaser first term. The only way i would do that is the first term is 5-7 years.
(having learned my lesson many years ago.)

Other great lessons - don't buy remote vacation property (ie colorado ski resort, betting on rental income)
Investment art work - I need Peter Max to kick, maybe i'll get my money back, but i doubt it,
In fact, don't buy anything that isn't involved in everyday life if you can rent it.
Don't lease a car unless you can expense it (that is the whole point of any leasing agreement)

For the newbie:
Learn how to do a spackle repair and paint a room when just starting out. This isn't just about changing the color.
It makes the room yours - walk into something you created. That good feeling. Don't like the color, gets old,
Paint it again.

@Johnny Utah - I agree with the immigration policy thing. My co did F-1 (student) and H-1 to green card hiring.
These are skilled workers (tech), and the process was strictly monitored. Hearings, paperwork, reviews, lots of lawyers.
Everyone gained in the end. Trailing spouses were an issue, sometimes here illegally, they couldn't be in the legal workforce.

I'm not sure what the right number is - the migrant farm worker community in the west seems to be well organized, legal.
They need a legal path - and not displace those who got in line to do it right.

More and more condos are going up - rent controlled and market. It this the relief (increased supply) on the upward pricing?
Driving along 287 in the Piscataway area, they are clearing a huge lot to add more housing (already have some close to move-in.)
Right on the highway, no sound wall.

I respect what you did but America isn’t taught that. It’s a long path of fucking up that often never gets unfucked leaving people worthless at retirement. I’m fortunate to have two homes. One I own outright and one I’ll be paying on for a ling time at a 2.65 rate. Always thinking of better ways to pay the principal down. In hind site a heloc loan 2 years ago would have been ideal.

 

[Patrick]

The fake money system - The Quash

In this episode I discuss the fake money system. If you like The Quash then go to patreon.com/theQuash and become a member. You will get the education o...

the-quash.captivate.fm

Worth a listen, imo.

i see the patreon link at the bottom - i'll do a crayon drawing and send it, in exchange for his musings, since he touts the barter system right out of the gate.
Made it 5 minutes in, i've heard this 1000x before, starting when i was in HS.

There is a lesson tho. Buy/obtain things of value. Learn/obtain skills that are wanted.
Then participate, like business people have been doing for 1000s of years.

Check out - From shells to bitcoin.
Rick isn't too far off with his clams, although i can mine them right here in NJ, which makes them an unacceptable medium of exchange after they've been eaten.

 

[UtahJoe]

Oh, and how many Ukranian billionaires did Biden make?

We are now fighting a Proxy war with Russia

First off we have been fighting a proxy war with Russia in one way or another since 1945.....pretty much uninterrupted....in a financial sense...this is probably one of the leaner times when you compare what we are spending now vs wwii, the space program, vietnam (proxy war with russia), military buildup in the 80s..what we are spending on the equipment being sent to the Ukraine is a pittance....few % of our military budget and thats only if you regard the equipment we are sending and brand new top line stuff....its isnt. Its mostly old junk that we have used in eions, or essentially ever in the case of HIMARS. I know most trumpers are now against us aiding the Ukraine because if Ukraine does well, that can somehow be looked at as a win for Biden...and we can't have that....but politics aside....letting the Ukraine be taken over by Russia is on the wrong side of history and is something we should be preventing.

 

[Johnny Utah]

First off we have been fighting a proxy war with Russia in one way or another since 1945.....pretty much uninterrupted....in a financial sense...this is probably one of the leaner times when you compare what we are spending now vs wwii, the space program, vietnam (proxy war with russia), military buildup in the 80s..what we are spending on the equipment being sent to the Ukraine is a pittance....few % of our military budget and thats only if you regard the equipment we are sending and brand new top line stuff....its isnt. Its mostly old junk that we have used in eions, or essentially ever in the case of HIMARS. I know most trumpers are now against us aiding the Ukraine because if Ukraine does well, that can somehow be looked at as a win for Biden...and we can't have that....but politics aside....letting the Ukraine be taken over by Russia is on the wrong side of history and is something we should be preventing.

I agree with you and am on the side of the Ukrainian people. NATO needs to supply them and Russia does need to be stopped, but this has escalated substantially since Joe took power.

 

[UtahJoe]

I agree with you and am on the side of the Ukrainian people. NATO needs to supply them and Russia does need to be stopped, but this has escalated substantially since Joe took power.

That's fair, never really know what was going thru Putin's head...and maybe he was really thinking that a senile old man like Biden wouldnt help the Ukraine vs trump.....but if you really look at Putin's history...Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine....its kinda been his M.O. for the past 25 years.....And if it went according to plan and Ukraine fell in a week....it would have been perfect....But I dont think either side had any idea Ukraine would fight this hard and embarrass Russia's military this badly.... for fuck sakes...how does a country with no navy totally destroy the Russian navy with some remote controlled jet skis?

 

[mfennell]

I do agree with you on the fact that we need people for these jobs - we used to use H2B for that - now we just open the border? I used to run ten commercial landscape crews in the city for property management and that was the way it worked twenty years ago, H2B that is. Those workers, while not citizens were incentivized to pay taxes and would work towards their citizenship. I guess we have Fawked those people now.

We also have a legal way of bringing people in. We are bypassing people on a waiting list for people that jump the boarder. If I tried that at a local restaurant where I need a reservation I am pretty sure that won’t work. Definitely does not work at the DMV either.

The current border policy is not complying with our laws. Why do I need to pay $200 for a passport when we are allowing people to just walk in? Further - if there are so many jobs available for these people why are the cities screaming they cannot handle them? We need to house these people - our tax dollars are covering their hotels rooms in addition to many others things - further they are occupying low income housing which further drives the housing crisis.

I have yet to meet anyone that favors these policies that has taken immigrants in. Have you? Have your hired any of these people - if you have not - then why? I get the morality thing to help these people out - but I have yet to meet someone that has opened their own doors up. Someone else will take care of it - right?

I pay taxes, these people don’t. Anyway I don’t have to pay taxes anymore because I am pretty sure my tax dollars are covering this nonsense.

Does this mean TSA is going away?

I do agree it is very difficult to send them back, once they are here - they are here. Why not do this legally under the system the way it is setup?

Further - for the jobs you speak of. Local towns know the illegals do not have insurance, pay permits etc. so rather site them they let infractions go as they would be following a ghost once they hit the court system - yet the tax payer that operates in these industries pays the price. Higher insurance, higher license fees and additional scrutiny. We are a country/society of tax payers/citizens but this punishes our own.

TSA has little to do with immigration. You're thinking of the CBP.

The United States birth rate (1.7) is way below replacement (2.1). We need immigration. I'll say the quiet part out loud: lots of people don't want more brown Americans. That's it. The problem is that most not-brown people have it pretty good and see no reason to abandon their home countries.

Your complaints conflate 'illegals' and 'asylum seekers'. 'Illegals' are people who are undocumented. Asylum seekers are very much documented.

Asylum seekers are showing up in NYC or wherever because they present themselves to border agents and the state governments bus them up here to own the libs or whatever. They are people hoping not to be murdered in their home country. They are also trying to do it the right way and are ready to work but have to wait for authorization. Most of those arriving in NYC have become self-sufficient as work authorizations have come in. These are ambitious and resilient. A lot of them coming from Columbia or Venezuela are friggin' walking through the Darian Gap. 60 miles of rainforest and misery.

The other group, undocumented, often have fake work papers and end up paying into SS, payroll taxes, and Medicare despite having no mechanism to receive benefits. 13 billion to SSA in 2016. They're an important part of the economy.

Curious unintended consequence: hardening the border seems to have the perverse effect of increasing the number of undocumented. When it was easier to sneak through, there was more flow back and forth. Now people only go back south when they don't expect to ever come back.

 

[Johnny Utah]

That's fair, never really know what was going thru Putin's head...and maybe he was really thinking that a senile old man like Biden wouldnt help the Ukraine vs trump.....but if you really look at Putin's history...Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine....its kinda been his M.O. for the past 25 years.....And if it went according to plan and Ukraine fell in a week....it would have been perfect....But I dont think either side had any idea Ukraine would fight this hard and embarrass Russia's military this badly.... for fuck sakes...how does a country with no navy totally destroy the Russian navy with some remote controlled jet skis?

It has been pretty bad for the Russians. As awful as it is to say, it is in NATO’s best interest to continue to degrade Russia and their military kit using someone else’s backyard and blood. It will take years for Russia to resupply and rebuild moral. At this point their moral is far worse than what the US armed forces saw in the later years of the Vietnam War.

 

[UtahJoe]

It has been pretty bad for the Russians. As awful as it is to say, it is in NATO’s best interest to continue to degrade Russia and their military kit using someone else’s backyard and blood. It will take years for Russia to resupply and rebuild moral. At this point their moral is far worse than what the US armed forces saw in the later years of the Vietnam War.

agreed...

And its truly tragic what is happening there...the death and destruction are...maybe not WWI horrific, but probably the closest things we have seen to it in a very long time. And I think what alot of people are missing is that even if we cut off all funds tomorrow....its not going to end...even if the Ukrainian govt fell tomorrow...its not going to stop the war and death....Much like when south vietnam fell, or other countries have been taken over throughout history...thats when the REALLY bad killing starts...scores will be settled and it will be ugly when only one side has a way to defend themselves.

 

[xmonger]

i see the patreon link at the bottom - i'll do a crayon drawing and send it, in exchange for his musings, since he touts the barter system right out of the gate.
Made it 5 minutes in, i've heard this 1000x before, starting when i was in HS.

There is a lesson tho. Buy/obtain things of value. Learn/obtain skills that are wanted.
Then participate, like business people have been doing for 1000s of years.

Check out - From shells to bitcoin.
Rick isn't too far off with his clams, although i can mine them right here in NJ, which makes them an unacceptable medium of exchange after they've been eaten.

i see the patreon link at the bottom - i'll do a crayon drawing and send it, in exchange for his musings, since he touts the barter system right out of the gate.
Made it 5 minutes in, i've heard this 1000x before, starting when i was in HS.

There is a lesson tho. Buy/obtain things of value. Learn/obtain skills that are wanted.
Then participate, like business people have been doing for 1000s of years.

Check out - From shells to bitcoin.
Rick isn't too far off with his clams, although i can mine them right here in NJ, which makes them an unacceptable medium of exchange after they've been eaten.

If you table aside the real money for real work argument; I think the bigger message is that there is no policy fix to our absurd debt problem and that problem only ends in one of two ways; neither good.

 

[Johnny Utah]

TSA has little to do with immigration. You're thinking of the CBP.

The United States birth rate (1.7) is way below replacement (2.1). We need immigration. I'll say the quiet part out loud: lots of people don't want more brown Americans. That's it. The problem is that most not-brown people have it pretty good and see no reason to abandon their home countries.

Your complaints conflate 'illegals' and 'asylum seekers'. 'Illegals' are people who are undocumented. Asylum seekers are very much documented.

Asylum seekers are showing up in NYC or wherever because they present themselves to border agents and the state governments bus them up here to own the libs or whatever. They are people hoping not to be murdered in their home country. They are also trying to do it the right way and are ready to work but have to wait for authorization. Most of those arriving in NYC have become self-sufficient as work authorizations have come in. These are ambitious and resilient. A lot of them coming from Columbia or Venezuela are friggin' walking through the Darian Gap. 60 miles of rainforest and misery.

The other group, undocumented, often have fake work papers and end up paying into SS, payroll taxes, and Medicare despite having no mechanism to receive benefits. 13 billion to SSA in 2016. They're an important part of the economy.

Curious unintended consequence: hardening the border seems to have the perverse effect of increasing the number of undocumented. When it was easier to sneak through, there was more flow back and forth. Now people only go back south when they don't expect to ever come back.

The TSA thing was more of me being a wise-ass. Distasteful on my part.

The birth rate thing I really did not think of - that is very important as I know that is a huge issue China is looking at due to their mushrooming elderly population vs. the current/future working class.

Still - from what I can see on the news, and not just fox. We are not handling it that well.

I am not sure it is an issue of not wanting certain types of people - but unfortunately there will always be bigots, at that is a shame. IMHO there are a good amount of Americans that see taxes go up annually with little or no return to them. “Handouts” so to speak - the likelihood a good amount of these people are going to live off “the system” for 3-5 years is driving a large portion of people nuts.

My frustration after working 50-70 hour weeks (and my wife) for the last four years (essential during COVID - handing out PPP to people who really did not need it) while I watched people sit at home, collect unemployment, checks for each kid in the house, $10k off their student loans etc. while I have had minimal wage growth (loss when inflation is considered) higher taxes and reduce service from government. There are a lot of people who share this frustration - they are paying for it with no benefit - maybe they were not in the majority two years ago, but their majority is growing and has a really good chance of electing Trump back to office - which is also nuts as I did not see that happening twelve months ago (I am desperate for someone that acts Presidential - I think Obama was the last time I did not continually wince at the television) - and I am not talking about policy, just the way they speak/interact with the public.

We could have fast tracked asylum/immigration - what is taking place now is sloppy.

I am very sympathetic to people in horrible situations seeking asylum. But we cannot take everyone in - it is awful, I know but at the end of the day a reminder we are in some way still animals in a “Tribe” scenario.

Further - I would stress my belief that the people that are here illegally should stay. Pull the tape off, fast track them into the system and get them to pay taxes (when they finally hit a bracket that requires such). The government needs to create a streamline process that includes jobs to get these people transitioning into society - and not trapped by a system that does not allow them to move up because they can only work “cash” jobs off the books (which turns some of these people into Slaves to the system).

BTW - all love here. I respect everyone’s opinion and thank you all for sharing yours.

 

[Johnny Utah]

If you table aside the real money for real work argument; I think the bigger message is that there is no policy fix to our absurd debt problem and that problem only ends in one of two ways; neither good.

I think if we didn’t have the debt issue there would be more people in favor of immigration vs. opposed.

The debt/spending appetite by our government is VERY scary right now.

 

[Santapez]

I think if we didn’t have the debt issue there would be more people in favor of immigration vs. opposed.

The debt/spending appetite by our government is VERY scary right now.

As @mfennell noted above, immigration is the growth solution to the dwindling population and a national debt. As long as they pay more in taxes/benefits than they take it removes the overall burden. And as he noted there's plenty of illegal aliens uses fake SS #s that actually pay taxes and into SS without a payback. So while I'd prefer we didn't spend like crazy, immigration actually helps there.

@mfennell You can be both an illegal alien and an asylum seeker. Basically due to the way asylum works nearly all of the people crossing the boarder now claim asylum, correct or not. Many will then will not show up for the court dates and disappear. Even if the asylum status would be correct it's not very easy to actually prove you should be an asylum seeker unless you have things like physical scars from torture.