Behold! The Future!

While they might be doing it half as a joke, good for them to try something different. It took the industry a couple of decades to change to a suitable wheel size and even more to move away from road bike geometry.
 
goldsbar said:
While they might be doing it half as a joke, good for them to try something different. It took the industry a couple of decades to change to a suitable wheel size and even more to move away from road bike geometry.
Click to expand...

Which size wheel is that?
 
watched the whole thing during lunch. Great video. It makes me think back to 5-6 years ago when I rode my slack bike. I've always been am XC weenie. I was in Steamboat and I hated it riding on the XC trails. Well..... that all changed when we went up to the top of the mountain. First trip down i was like ok wait minute, I'm just friggin' railing everything with no brakes. Two wheel drifting and flying. I rode another one at a demo the next spring and I hated it again, but XC. I finally bought one several years back and I would never go back to that old geometry.
 
I saw the video they did of hucking various XC bikes to flat, then they showed this being hucked to flat. All in slow mo. I was waiting for that head tube to snap...and it didnt.
 
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I watched this and was blown away with the difference Yoann's time was on the GD! I also listened to the PB podcast that just came out and there were other factors like Yoann's chain pooping off mid-run, he was not used to the tires and brakes, it was late in the day and they had higher pressure in the rear tire to prevent popping. Really funny too that Yoann's first thought of the GD was that is was a "piece of shit" (in French accent, haha).

Overall really crazy that it was built as a joke and it ended up being a bunch faster. (the video took longer to come out because they had to re-do the ending).

I think the next step should bring up the BB height because nothing annoys me more than hitting cranks and just hearing about it made me cringe. And I think with that wheelbase it is ultra stable anyways and you could take worrying about cranks hitting out of the ride. Actually I think it would be interesting to see ultra short CS length and zero drop BB with the crazy slack HT.

I think it was Mike Kaz that was talking about a 32" front wheel. It's just like off road 4 wheeling where 37's tires are the norm where not long ago a 35" tire was considered big.

Anyway it is a very cool and interesting exercise. Having starting riding mtn bikes on a rigid hardtail with 71/73 degree angles on 26x2.1 tires and a 150mm stem and narrow bars the new bikes ride everything so well and make mtn biking fun so it's nice to see the changes. Oh and 3x7 gearing sucked back then too!
 
JPark said:
This is a similar future-bike type thing.

www.vitalmtb.com

Ultra-Long, 210mm Travel Enduro Machine - Is This the Ultimate MTB?

Ex-MTB editor turned brand ambassador Paul Aston has built what he calls "his life's work". Dig in to find out what makes it unique (hint: pretty much everything).
www.vitalmtb.com www.vitalmtb.com
Click to expand...

Great article. I like the detail explanation on why he does what he does build wise.

This stood out to me:

Bottom bracket height: The BB is currently about 375mm. Blasphemy! I'm not a super fan of low bottom brackets, especially in Finale where there are plenty of things to catch a pedal on. My theory is that low bottom brackets were great to improve stability on tiny bikes with small wheels a few years ago, nowadays we mostly use bigger wheels so we instantly have higher axles and more BB drop, plus this bike is so inherently stable that a higher BB lets me ride through rocks and ruts with much more confidence.

I find it also switches direction easily with my style of riding: I pump the bike a lot and unweight it between corners, at full extension I am standing above the axles and so it tips over easily. This also keeps the bike leaned over in turns better: if you are standing far below the axles your weight pushing through the BB is trying to stand the bike up.
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He says what I was thinking in a much better way. It sounds like he doesn't like short CS but I can see his reasoning. I like short CS's as it's easier for manuals and whips but maybe with that higher 375mm BB those would be easier.

Love the looks of that bike. With the 29 front and 27.5x2.6 rear, tall BB, dual crown fork and backswept bars it looks like a pedal MX (or BMX ;)). The bars are another area where he gives great detail on the history of why it's been done in the mtn bike world and where that prodcut should be now (like MX as the bar gets wider maybe more backsweep).
 
don said:
Great article. I like the detail explanation on why he does what he does build wise.

This stood out to me:



He says what I was thinking in a much better way. It sounds like he doesn't like short CS but I can see his reasoning. I like short CS's as it's easier for manuals and whips but maybe with that higher 375mm BB those would be easier.

Love the looks of that bike. With the 29 front and 27.5x2.6 rear, tall BB, dual crown fork and backswept bars it looks like a pedal MX (or BMX ;)). The bars are another area where he gives great detail on the history of why it's been done in the mtn bike world and where that prodcut should be now (like MX as the bar gets wider maybe more backsweep).
Click to expand...

One thing I found interesting was it had 210mm of suspension, but he set his sag around 50% so the bike has a normal ride height, but when you hit big features all that travel is there for you. I think those high-rise handlebars are the future. I bumped mine from 20mm to 40mm and love it. I found no downside to it. When climbing I bend my elbows a little more. I think I'd like them even higher.

I've also noticed a parallel between mountain biking and freeride skiing (skiing off groomers).
Mountain biking evolved from road bikes and it's taken years to pull them away from the basic road geometry.
Freeride skiing evolved from ski racing and it took years to change the design of skis to make them perform off of groomers (shorter, wider, parabolic shaped).
Neither relied on technological breakthroughs to happen, just industries unwilling to change.
 
JPark said:
One thing I found interesting was it had 210mm of suspension, but he set his sag around 50% so the bike has a normal ride height, but when you hit big features all that travel is there for you. I think those high-rise handlebars are the future. I bumped mine from 20mm to 40mm and love it. I found no downside to it. When climbing I bend my elbows a little more. I think I'd like them even higher.

I've also noticed a parallel between mountain biking and freeride skiing (skiing off groomers).
Mountain biking evolved from road bikes and it's taken years to pull them away from the basic road geometry.
Freeride skiing evolved from ski racing and it took years to change the design of skis to make them perform off of groomers (shorter, wider, parabolic shaped).
Neither relied on technological breakthroughs to happen, just industries unwilling to change.
Click to expand...

I re-read that suspension section and when he says "travel itself doesn't weigh anything" and the more sag the more traction I immediately thought great points!

I've always liked hi-rise bars. I actually think stems should be lower (slammed to the headset) and bars taller for a little more flex and give and you'll have more tun-ability with bar feel based on foward or aft positioning.

Very good point on the parallel's between MTB and skiing. I totally agree. I'll also add a factor the BMX/MX group to MTB and snowboarding to skiing. Going back to handlebars I remember seeing an ad with Tinker Juarez and he had a pair of riser bars (I think it was an Airwalk ad). I had flat bars on my 1993 Kona Lava Dome and had to have risers. Tinker raced BMX for years so I'm guessing that's why he wanted risers when he moved over to MTB. That's the early 90's. You add Cullinan, Lopes, EC, Palmer later that decade and the BMX/moto influences started to show.

And with skiing kids riding with their snowboards buddies suddenly wanted to ride switch, slide rails, and search for powder so the ski designs and style of skiing changed. I actually had an Avalanche board with bindings that I used Salomon rear-entry boots on - wtf was I thinking?!
 
stb222 said:
Mondraker?
Click to expand...

Mondraker started this, right? And then the guy who worked there apparently started a super high-end company, I forget what it’s called though. I checked them out a while ago when I first started bike shopping, but frame prices where eye-watering. I checked out Atherton bikes too because they licensed DW-link, but ultimately settled on a bike that wasn’t going to run $10k, because my last name isn’t Rockefeller or Morgan. Anyway, that Geometron is cool, especially the fork. I used so sweat Dorados back in the day. It’s basically the Pinkbike bike without as much of a head-tube snapping fork angle.
 
JPark said:
One thing I found interesting was it had 210mm of suspension, but he set his sag around 50% so the bike has a normal ride height, but when you hit big features all that travel is there for you. I think those high-rise handlebars are the future. I bumped mine from 20mm to 40mm and love it. I found no downside to it. When climbing I bend my elbows a little more. I think I'd like them even higher.

I've also noticed a parallel between mountain biking and freeride skiing (skiing off groomers).
Mountain biking evolved from road bikes and it's taken years to pull them away from the basic road geometry.
Freeride skiing evolved from ski racing and it took years to change the design of skis to make them perform off of groomers (shorter, wider, parabolic shaped).
Neither relied on technological breakthroughs to happen, just industries unwilling to change.
Click to expand...

Actually, parabolic skis were designed to make carving easier because they were setting gates up tighter across the fall line. The slalom guys were the early adopters. The first real soft-snow freeride skis evolved from snowboards. I believe someone actually cut a snowboard in half to make a pair of fat pow boards.
 
don said:
Great article. I like the detail explanation on why he does what he does build wise.

This stood out to me:



He says what I was thinking in a much better way. It sounds like he doesn't like short CS but I can see his reasoning. I like short CS's as it's easier for manuals and whips but maybe with that higher 375mm BB those would be easier.

Love the looks of that bike. With the 29 front and 27.5x2.6 rear, tall BB, dual crown fork and backswept bars it looks like a pedal MX (or BMX ;)). The bars are another area where he gives great detail on the history of why it's been done in the mtn bike world and where that prodcut should be now (like MX as the bar gets wider maybe more backsweep).
Click to expand...

I think that Nicolai makes the frames for Geometron. Ze Germans weld very prezizely and nicely.

NICOLAI BICYCLES - german crafted bikes - kostenlose Probefahrten

Erfahre mehr über unsere Modelle, Manufaktur und die NICOLAI Experience. Buche deinen persönlichen TESTRIDE bei dir zu Hause - unverbindlich & kostenlos.
en.nicolai-bicycles.com en.nicolai-bicycles.com
 
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Captain Brainstorm said:
Actually, parabolic skis were designed to make carving easier because they were setting gates up tighter across the fall line. The slalom guys were the early adopters. The first real soft-snow freeride skis evolved from snowboards. I believe someone actually cut a snowboard in half to make a pair of fat pow boards.
Click to expand...
I believe that was Shane McConkey who took water skis and put ski bindings on them for pow skis for freeride.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
Mondraker started this, right? And then the guy who worked there apparently started a super high-end company, I forget what it’s called though. I checked them out a while ago when I first started bike shopping, but frame prices where eye-watering. I checked out Atherton bikes too because they licensed DW-link, but ultimately settled on a bike that wasn’t going to run $10k, because my last name isn’t Rockefeller or Morgan. Anyway, that Geometron is cool, especially the fork. I used so sweat Dorados back in the day. It’s basically the Pinkbike bike without as much of a head-tube snapping fork angle.
Click to expand...

Cesar Rojo and Unno.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
I think that Nicolai makes the frames for Geometron. Ze Germans weld very prezizely and nicely.

NICOLAI BICYCLES - german crafted bikes - kostenlose Probefahrten

Erfahre mehr über unsere Modelle, Manufaktur und die NICOLAI Experience. Buche deinen persönlichen TESTRIDE bei dir zu Hause - unverbindlich & kostenlos.
en.nicolai-bicycles.com en.nicolai-bicycles.com
Click to expand...

haha - reading that I can imagine a German dude under a welding helmet with a crazy clean and spotless work area turning around and saying "karbon...pfttt" then going right back to welding.
 
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