How the hell are we supposed to retire?

clarkenstein said:
my match was doing sooooo well (match is done with company stock). then some bad news hit, then more. match isn't doing so well anymore. and i can't pull the match out of company stock until a certain time period passes.
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i keep it at 5% or a little less every time the window opens. no doubt this too will rebound - good news is, you'll get the next match at the reduced price.

remember when SXM went down to $0.06 ????
 
So basically all of these people wanting to cash out do not believe in Bitcoin and want to exchange it for USD because it's actually worth something. If you believe in the future of Bitcoin, you should hold onto it forever, no?

That being said, cash out now and buy me a new cross bike.
 
fidodie said:
as we approach 2 years into this thread, let's take a look at what has happened. I know everyone wants to move money between funds, so assume they played the market - both us/international

the US chart - using vtsax (a low load, no-fee, total market fund) went from a low of 47.60 when Rob was seeing his investments drop - to a current 66.38 - so about a 40% gain.
international - vtiax (again a low load, no-fee total intl fund) went from a low of 22.36 at the same time, to 30.19 - a bit more than 40%.
there were peaks in 2011, 2014, but the current market is higher than both - this probably means that it will fall back thru the trend line at some point - it always does.

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all in all, expect your investment to double every 10 years (that is 7% return) - That isn't counting any employer match. (which as Dave notes, is an executive privilege thing - they can afford to put more in, and it is often done as a match on % of income - say 2/3 or the first 6% - up to limit - well if the executive has 6% of their salary above the limit they get 2/3 the limit. most people don't make $250,000+ per year - so they get 2/3 of the first 6% - yes confusing - real world - executive makes $250k, 401k limit 15k, executive puts in $15k, gets $10k match, Tech makes $50k, puts in 15k (which is almost impossible) company matches 2/3 of 6% of salary - they get $2k match) - some of the rules have changed here - that is how it was back in the 80s at AT&T.

Why do people have small amounts of money in their retirement fund after putting money in all these years? 401k started in 1978 - so most of us except for @thegock, don't predate it.
1. they don't put enough in
2. they don't consistently contribute (every paycheck)
3. they don't put more in when they get a raise
4. they take withdrawls
5. they liquidate when they change jobs
6. They get gunshy on market dips (buying opportunities)
7. Are conservatively invested when market rebounds

Even if you found the best stock in the world, you still have to have a significant amount of money to invest to make a significant amount of return to retire!
$1,000btc/US turning into $1,000,000btc/US? The good news is that it was affordable.

Anyway - back to the time honored way.
Keep plowing away retirement money - every paycheck.
10% can be tough - but it is probably 8% of net if you do it pre-tax, (independant people do a ROTH)
Minimally, whatever an employer will match.
Don't try to play the market (sector or timing) - just invest in a market fund. you'll always chase the gain with the info available
If you need a loan against it for something short term, think hard before doing it - and pay it back, you owe it to your future.
If you change jobs - roll it into a vanguard IRA account (or other) - split it between those funds above and maybe some bonds (10%)
Ride the waves - i've watched 50% and 30% disappear(2x) 87, 2000, 2008.
oh, don't buy a boat with a motor. 😉

this year marks 30 years of consistent investing. Even the last few years, with significant income reduction, i've put $$ away - but the time has passed, and
it isn't going to make a difference. It is the money saved while in our 20s and 30s that is leading the way now. I can expect the small current investments
to double, but it is the rest of money doubling that will make it comfy 10 years from now (or 12 or 15, or 8) matters not.

the market has doubled twice since 2009 (vtsax) - off the 2008 low. It has doubled more than 3x since 1987 PEAK. (sp500) - the market recovered from the 87 crash in less than 2 years.
I started my 401k in 86 ish, and got hammered! scared the crap out of me. but it recovered, and the ability to look at the charts made it convincing.

mess with this retirement calculator - http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/retirement/retirement-plan-calculator.aspx
quick hint - save $5k a year starting at 30, you'll have $600k at age 64. without increasing the contribution. Yeah, it is $100/wk, but it is your future. don't fuck with it.
if you managed to start at 22 (just investing another $40k,) you'd have almost twice that.

PS - I don't like the investing options in a 529, but the tax and financial aid treatment is favorable, and the designee can be changed in the family....but ya gotta do that too.
every paycheck. And give the family the link to donate, instead of 10 onsies, they can throw $25 in the fund.

it's an endurance event. Don't treat it like a race in february.
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Nice return to the original topic here. From your numbered list, the most common one I saw at Colgate was people being too conservative and having too much in fixed income, not enough in stock funds. Amazingly there were a few people that never contributed at all!

My 401K started about the same time as you - early 80s. I saw 3 big downturns which did a number on my balance but each time it rebounded quickly.

So once you actually get to retirement, especially if you retire early, similar strategies still apply. Need to be more conservative but you should still have a substantial percentage in stock funds. I'm fortunate to have a great pension but you still want your IRA funds to last at least another 40 years. That's more time than I spent working!
 
fidodie said:
Anyway - back to the time honored way.
Keep plowing away retirement money - every paycheck.
10% can be tough - but it is probably 8% of net if you do it pre-tax, (independant people do a ROTH)
Minimally, whatever an employer will match.
Don't try to play the market (sector or timing) - just invest in a market fund. you'll always chase the gain with the info available
If you need a loan against it for something short term, think hard before doing it - and pay it back, you owe it to your future.
If you change jobs - roll it into a vanguard IRA account (or other) - split it between those funds above and maybe some bonds (10%)
Ride the waves - i've watched 50% and 30% disappear(2x) 87, 2000, 2008.
oh, don't buy a boat with a motor. 😉
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Very much agree...I think many people fail to realize the pre tax benefits and in my companies case 5% match....Seems like a big hit when you are just looking at what you are taking home, but that money is otherwise evaporating into thin air via taxes.
 
After 2008, many companies changed the structure of their investment offerings in their 401(k) packages, redesigning them to be automatically adjusted for age of the investor and leaning more toward index offerings. If you're like most people, those changes were a good thing because they really allowed you to "set it and forget it" - it will change your allocation automatically on a set clock so by the time you hit, say, 65 your pretty much out of the risky categories altogether and in income funds only.

As for all this Bitcoin stuff, I'm curious for those who have followed it very closely: would you agree that the recent goings-on have really only served to prove that its not a viable currency? I mean, its defining characteristic right now seems to be its instability. That's not exactly the term you want to think of when you think of the basis for an economy.
 
I enjoyed this a while back ago. Although I break #4 but always try to buy low and wait years

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/everything-always-wanted-know-money-afraid-ask/

the-index-card.jpg
 
1speed said:
After 2008, many companies changed the structure of their investment offerings in their 401(k) packages, redesigning them to be automatically adjusted for age of the investor and leaning more toward index offerings. If you're like most people, those changes were a good thing because they really allowed you to "set it and forget it" - it will change your allocation automatically on a set clock so by the time you hit, say, 65 your pretty much out of the risky categories altogether and in income funds only.

As for all this Bitcoin stuff, I'm curious for those who have followed it very closely: would you agree that the recent goings-on have really only served to prove that its not a viable currency? I mean, its defining characteristic right now seems to be its instability. That's not exactly the term you want to think of when you think of the basis for an economy.
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It's currently f'd as a currency. But as the lightning network comes online next year Visa should start getting very worried, or become the largest node and embrace it. I hope they embrace it and offer a system of credit on the lightning network.
 
fidodie said:
mess with this retirement calculator - http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/retirement/retirement-plan-calculator.aspx
quick hint - save $5k a year starting at 30, you'll have $600k at age 64. without increasing the contribution. Yeah, it is $100/wk, but it is your future. don't fuck with it.
if you managed to start at 22 (just investing another $40k,) you'd have almost twice that.
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Pat one flaw in that calculator - it has no provision for retirement income other than investments and social security. People should keep that in mind when using it - I know pensions are rare these days but government employees still get them.
 
I spent my lunch money and bought small amounts of bitcoin and litecoin yesterday and now i can’t stop refreshing my phone any my battery dying fast AF
 
Thank you, i wanted to document this as if anything happens, we can look back and say “oh once PEARL got in it went to shit”
 
This was last week- they should change their name to NiceHaul.
surprised it din't make it up here yet:

Hackers Make Off With $70 Million in Bitcoin
Hackers stole nearly $70 million worth of bitcoin from a cryptocurrency mining service called NiceHash that markets itself as the world's largest cryptomining marketplace.

NiceHash halted operations for 24 hours following the breach.

"Clearly, this is a matter of deep concern and we are working hard to rectify the matter in the coming days. In addition to undertaking our own investigation, the incident has been reported to the relevant authorities and law enforcement and we are co-operating with them as a matter of urgency. We are fully committed to restoring the NiceHash service with the highest security measures at the earliest opportunity," the company said in a Facebook post.
 
w_b said:
This was last week- they should change their name to NiceHaul.
surprised it din't make it up here yet:

Hackers Make Off With $70 Million in Bitcoin
Hackers stole nearly $70 million worth of bitcoin from a cryptocurrency mining service called NiceHash that markets itself as the world's largest cryptomining marketplace.

NiceHash halted operations for 24 hours following the breach.

"Clearly, this is a matter of deep concern and we are working hard to rectify the matter in the coming days. In addition to undertaking our own investigation, the incident has been reported to the relevant authorities and law enforcement and we are co-operating with them as a matter of urgency. We are fully committed to restoring the NiceHash service with the highest security measures at the earliest opportunity," the company said in a Facebook post.
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How is this relevant?
 
gtluke said:
So one of my friends did this. I'm not saying it was a good idea, but holy F'ing crap did it pay off for him.
There was also a guy on reddit who did it. He bought 250k worth of btc when it was at $3,500 per. He's now set for life.
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But did he sell it now? Because if he did, then I'd agree that he could be set for life. If he is still riding the wave, then I woulnd't count on that. Seems like this is one of those area not to get greedy - figure out where you'd max out and don't deviate from that no matter what happens before you go into it.
 
not "only;" ya gotta be diversified. $70MM puts plenty of Peanut Butter in the cabinet. and ammo. and whatever else I want.

don't take it too seriously.
 
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