Allaire Night Riding

KenS

KenS

JORBA: Board
JORBA.ORG
Attention all who use the Allaire trails! The south side trails, off of Hospital Road, and all trails managed by Allaire State Park, are open for multi-use from dawn to dusk. The State Park Police have run into folks doing night rides on the Allaire State Park trail system on numerous occasions in the last few weeks. Thus far only warnings have been issued. Our Executive Director was contacted by a senior member of the State Park Police yesterday asking JORBA to please inform our members that the Park Police are bound to enforce this regulation, and in the coming weeks will make a dedicated effort to ensure compliance.

JORBA and the Allaire Trail Users Group (ATUG) have put thousands of hours into trail love, design, building, maintenance and riding, and seemingly just as many behind the scenes to establish a strong partnership with the Allaire State Park Staff, the New Jersey Division of Parks and Forestry, and New Jersey State Park Police. These partnerships are based upon mutual respect between the land managers and a very dedicated group of volunteers. Compliance with the park rules are a cornerstone of the respect which our diverse group of trail users gives back to the park.

We have successfully implemented organized night rides in parks stewarded by JORBA across the state, most notably in Wharton State Forest. The recent increase in night trail use not only threatens efforts to advocate for expanded organized night rides, it tarnishes the image of all trail users.
Our access to trails in New Jersey and across the nation relies upon partnerships established through decades of advocacy and stewardship. Please help us in spreading the message to those who are unaware of the park’s hours, or are choosing to ignore them. Rest assured that we will do all we can to advocate for your access and promote responsible trail use.

Please feel free to email info-at-jorba.org with questions or concerns for the JORBA staff.

Thank you and happy trails,
Ken Seebeck, Executive Director
&
Frank Harms, President
JORBA - Jersey Off Road Bicycle Association
 
I am going to add my own flare here that is most likely not going to be appreciated.

In my opinion, this is the first and easiest thing the park can do in response to a number of "Real" issues that they may not be able to or know how to address: YET.

I will give you a quick background about myself......I have been riding that park pretty religiously for 21 years. I would like to get away from it sometimes, but that is a different story. I know the park and the surrounding area very well.

1. Nite Riding
Yes, it is illegal, it is clearly posted, do people do it: yes, have people been doing it for years: yes. Are other user groups out there yes, seen them all, druggies, hunters, poachers, drinkers, geo-cashers, hook-ups.......they are all out there (I haven't seen night riding horses though). Then again, I don't night ride, I use my psychics crystal ball. One of the issues is the sloppiness of the rider community now:
  • There are cars parked everywhere in plain sight along the park.
  • People park in unrelated business and turn the lot into tail gate parties, leaving their lights on, music, parking within feet of the buildings. If you were one of these business and you parked your car, wouldn't you be warry of the weird gaggle of unrelated people hanging out outside your building at night? I would, some of these people probably think we are a Bro-nie convention (look it up).
  • People carry on in the woods like it is a rave......rangers/homeowners & the local hospital can here you. For all they know we are a bunch of druggies hanging out in the woods (see my previous statement). I know you can't see buildings, but we live in the most populated per-square mile state, civilization is not far away.
2. Rogue Trail Building:
To say it is out of control is an understatement. What is even worse, is some of the parties do not even hide the fact that they are doing so anymore.
  • One embarrassing event is that the Jorba/Atug group had approval for a trail with the park, prior to executing someone built a rogue trail in it's place. If the riding communities group cannot police itself, it sends a poor statement to management. These trails are making advocacy groups job very hard.
  • Hunters are getting pushed out of their enclaves: There are few areas left in the basin for hunters, they are pissed and are complaining about us on the regular. If you say there were trails in the hunting areas, there were, for hunters to get out in. Groups have bastardized these by creating networks of trails in these areas (some out of the park).
  • Built features - yes bridges and whatever else some of these contraptions are. In some areas in accordance with the land managers these are okay (outside of Allaire with one exception in the park), where they have not been given the okay the park/State/manager look at them as an insurance nightmare. Can someone help me out with some of the Mtn Bike related lawsuits we have seen over the years?
  • The wonderful argument - we are doing them a favor by building and maintaining these trails. Love this one. I will take the side of the land manager - how would you feel if you if someone did your job for YOU in front of YOUR boss. You would probably feel threatened and think you are getting fired (and react!). Well trust me, none of the rogue trail builders are doing the managers job, but when a new or refurbished network of unapproved trails pop-up, especially in the open, it is only a matter of time until action/reaction take place on the Parks part.
3. Etiqutee:
Not awful and mostly seen with the newbies (but there are exceptions). Please remember to yield to horses/hikers. This may mean pulling off the trail and letting them go buy (and losing that KOM you are working on), especially during peak hours on Saturday and Sunday.

4. Wet Weather
Here I go again. Stay off the trails when they are wet. Yes yes, I know, it is the guys up north. It is the locals too. I saw enough Strava posts from the park last night that I wanted to slap someone silly. Those frozen ruts are going to be fun soon. So will the former hardpack that turned to a sandy mess.

5. Trail Engineering
Who the Fawk is taking out some of these logs, a low rider RC car can get over half of this stuff that is being removed.

I know I know:
  • Everyone else will listen to this, but the reader doesn't have to
  • I will just ride anyway, who is going to stop me
  • This guy writing this is a duche
  • The stuff we build is way better than Jorba/Atug/the park....enter name here
Well shet, you are one kewl fawk dawg, But that mentality will not last the course of time. As the cycling population grows, we will lose access to these places.

Think South Mountain or http://wwww.mtbnj.com/forum/threads/nox-closed-for-the-season.38415/#post-622961

I should add, I don't put this out there because I want to be a dick, I put it out there because I don't want the following:
  • The parks to close
  • The work of volunteers to be in vain
  • The donations from countless supporters to be in vain
  • Support from the community to cease
  • The reputation of our advocacy groups to be tarnished
  • The reputation of the community to be tarnished
  • The inability of our youth to share the opportunities we have been afforded.
  • For the park to no longer trust/work with the cycling community
 
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People need to be accountable for themselves and ride at their own risk. Most are. If you hit a tree and hurt yourself, that's on you, regardless if it is between dusk and dawn or not. Nobody but you forced you to ride there. Nobody but you made you hit the tree. Nobody but you wants to pay for your medical bills, or for judges and lawyers to hear your bullshit lawsuit, or helicopter pilots to airlift your busted ass out of the woods. There should be no difference if I want to ride the Edgar Felix Bike path or Tony the Tiger's Woods after dusk, as long as I understand and accept that should something bad happen, IT'S ON ME, no one else.

The State Park Police have better things to do than enforce "no night riding" rules. They need to hassle the campers for booze, blow, and underage hookers. Besides, unless they lie in wait for me, and ride themselves, they are not going to catch me anyway.

Am I missing the point? Is it really some other reason that night riding the trails is not allowed? If so, please esplanade.
 
w_b said:
People need to be accountable for themselves and ride at their own risk. Most are. If you hit a tree and hurt yourself, that's on you, regardless if it is between dusk and dawn or not. Nobody but you forced you to ride there. Nobody but you made you hit the tree. Nobody but you wants to pay for your medical bills, or for judges and lawyers to hear your bullshit lawsuit, or helicopter pilots to airlift your busted ass out of the woods. There should be no difference if I want to ride the Edgar Felix Bike path or Tony the Tiger's Woods after dusk, as long as I understand and accept that should something bad happen, IT'S ON ME, no one else.

The State Park Police have better things to do than enforce "no night riding" rules. They need to hassle the campers for booze, blow, and underage hookers. Besides, unless they lie in wait for me, and ride themselves, they are not going to catch me anyway.

Am I missing the point? Is it really some other reason that night riding the trails is not allowed? If so, please esplanade.
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it becomes a search and rescue at night - they mobilize resources that are needed elsewhere.
And while we don't really think of it in rural NJ, it would be a good place to get ambushed. no way to tell the good guys from the bad, so just close the door.

There is night riding in PA - it may be less convenient, but legal.

Some of the jorba park reps have been able to organize legal night rides. I'd recommend speaking to them, asking what they think were the keys to their success, and then talk
to @Frank or @mike_243 and see if it could be done (and i would say now is not the time, but never know) -
 
w_b said:
The State Park Police have better things to do than enforce "no night riding" rules. They need to hassle the campers for booze, blow, and underage hookers. Besides, unless they lie in wait for me, and ride themselves, they are not going to catch me anyway.

Am I missing the point? Is it really some other reason that night riding the trails is not allowed? If so, please esplanade.
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It's pretty simple....Park police have a job. That job is to enforce park laws and rules.
 
I'm not gonna lie, I've ridden at night since I started riding. When I go, I'm stealthy so as not to attract attention but the local riding community has not done the same. Do i think it's a bullshit rule, absolutely. Would I like to change it, absolutely. But it becomes difficult when we so brazenly violate the rules. I believe that one day we can effect change and better our access, but we have to stop going backwards first. Riding in poor conditions and causing damage, being discourteous to other users, and violating rules will not put us at the top of anyone's list.
 
w_b said:
People need to be accountable for themselves and ride at their own risk. Most are. If you hit a tree and hurt yourself, that's on you, regardless if it is between dusk and dawn or not. Nobody but you forced you to ride there. Nobody but you made you hit the tree. Nobody but you wants to pay for your medical bills, or for judges and lawyers to hear your bullshit lawsuit, or helicopter pilots to airlift your busted ass out of the woods. There should be no difference if I want to ride the Edgar Felix Bike path or Tony the Tiger's Woods after dusk, as long as I understand and accept that should something bad happen, IT'S ON ME, no one else.



Am I missing the point? Is it really some other reason that night riding the trails is not allowed? If so, please esplanade.
Click to expand...

Yes you are. We live in a sue happy State. By reading your post I know you are not in the law profession.

They would love someone to go out and hurt them self in an area that doesn't have 1.6 trillion signs everywhere you ride stating "don't ride at night" and that doesn't have lighting and a security guard on duty, because they will make a case that the State is at fault. Lucky for the State there are "attractive nuisance" laws (I think applicable in NJ), but there are lawyers that can get around that (that's why they get paid the big $).

We all know the absurdity of lawsuits, so we really do not need to go back that far.

By ticketing and attempting to enforce the laws they can show evidence in a court of law that they have attempted to enforce the laws, creating a foot to stand on for negligence defense. I am sure this is part of the process right now.
 
Frank said:
I'm not gonna lie, I've ridden at night since I started riding. When I go, I'm stealthy so as not to attract attention but the local riding community has not done the same. Do i think it's a bullshit rule, absolutely. Would I like to change it, absolutely. But it becomes difficult when we so brazenly violate the rules. I believe that one day we can effect change and better our access, but we have to stop going backwards first. Riding in poor conditions and causing damage, being discourteous to other users, and violating rules will not put us at the top of anyone's list.
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Agreed.

I also encourage the members of this board to remind their friends and repeat offenders.
 
Point blank, there is a good sized group in the cycling community that has been behaving like a angry teenager that is fornicating and smoking dope in their parents bed while ditching school when their parents are at work. The teen promises he/she will stop if the parents buy he/she a car. It doesn't work that way doe.

Good behavior first, then perks.
 
Like I've said before we are our own worst enemy's when it comes down to it.
Just look how we are viewed in other parks in other part of the state, we have all done things on the edge as for as riding goes.
When we say that we should be responsible for our own actions that won't work.
Just watch TV after hours and count the commercials for lawsuits that you might be able to cash in on.
I could go on but it is Christmas....
remember the bad behavior of a few will spoil it for everyone.
Oh and as for legal night riding We have asked in the past but that is a tough one...but it is being asked..
 
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mike_243 said:
We have asked in the past but that is a tough one...but it is being asked..
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OK thanks all, glad we could have dis discourse. Keep up your good works, and us late afternoon riders will keep it ninja. 'Cause Bikes
 
Their biggest concern is safety, ie someone riding solo, getting injured and spending the night in the woods. Coming from someone who has been in search and rescue for well over 20 years, their concern is valid.

We can certainly mitigate that risk with a structured night ride program, but as mentioned above we need to start with playing by the rules.

Please use restraint when posting publicly btw. If you think that we are the only ones reading this you are mistaken.

Happy holidays!
 
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