Watchung Reservation

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i like to look deeply into the inner motivations of people to see what they are all about.

enjoy the board!
 
What I think has gone missing in this discussion is that the county created this situation. After first enacting an illegal ban years ago, they were recently called to task by an active member of the MTB community. It turns out that there was no legal basis for banning bikes. So then the signs went down, and JORBA was actively involved with the county in planning (or at least being informed) . All indications were that the county was about to enact a plan which would permit bikes on some trials, hikers on others, equestrians on their own. This includes a proposed draft plan showing MTB permitted on the western side of the park.

And now, practically over night we see a total reversal on this progress towards trail inclusion, and a new ban on bikes. This has been done without any communication to JORBA, or the larger MTB and Union County community. So the current situation at Watchung is entirely of the county's making. Lack of transparency, and excluding one group of trail users (and county tax payers) for no reason is totally unacceptable.

I have begun advocacy to find out what happened, why it happened, and how we can change it. I have put in an OPRA request and I have a call into the Director of Union County Dept of Parks & Rec , and will ask him these exact questions. I encourage everyone here to do the same.
Ronal Zuber - 908-527-4910
 
hikeronly said:
There's a right way to do things, and a wrong way. Your admitted lawbreaking, which you spin as "friendly sharing," yet which is experienced by many as aggressive intrusion, is the wrong way. And it has backfired. If biking continues, it will stymie whatever attempts are made to enact whatever legality you may eventually attain. I would be supportive of whatever the County decides as I am supportive of the current ban. My own feeling and opinion have been shaped by several factors. If bikers en masse have heretofore flouted the law with regularity, it seems to follow that they would likely exceed their allotted boundaries, not to mention the swarm of new, uninformed bikers who, upon hearing that the Reservation is open for biking, would proliferate everywhere. I commend the County for doing the right thing. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but you do have other venues. Yeah, it's a bit of an inconvenience. Such is life. Count your blessings. And please respect the ban.
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Hikeronly,
I appreciate and am encouraged that you have answered half my question, specifically, "I would be supportive of whatever the county decides...", but you still haven't answered the other half: Why are you do opposed to bikes in WR? Did someone crash into you? Was someone rude to you? Do you feel we ruin the trails (despite consistent research proving hiking/biking have comparable impact)? Fellow members of the Union County MTB community and I will be making diplomatic efforts to legitimize MTB at Watchung, and along with this will come the support of JORBA and it's history of quality trail maintenance, enhancement, and etiquette consistent with its network of parks where hikers/horses/bikes coexist happily without incident.

Kudos to you for jumping into this lion's den. Please try to ignore the insults/baiting. We are trying to work towards a solution here. There is a right way to do things, as you say, and we've been doing this through JORBA for years, with disappointingly slow results despite the fact that the County has drafted a trail plan to include bikes and has every intention of including bikes at Watchung. It is just moving at a glacial pace and with mixed messages via sign removal, and now sign reinstallation.
 
stilluf said:
What I think has gone missing in this discussion is that the county created this situation. After first enacting an illegal ban years ago, they were recently called to task by an active member of the MTB community. It turns out that there was no legal basis for banning bikes. So then the signs went down, and JORBA was actively involved with the county in planning (or at least being informed) . All indications were that the county was about to enact a plan which would permit bikes on some trials, hikers on others, equestrians on their own. This includes a proposed draft plan showing MTB permitted on the western side of the park.

And now, practically over night we see a total reversal on this progress towards trail inclusion, and a new ban on bikes. This has been done without any communication to JORBA, or the larger MTB and Union County community. So the current situation at Watchung is entirely of the county's making. Lack of transparency, and excluding one group of trail users (and county tax payers) for no reason is totally unacceptable.

I have begun advocacy to find out what happened, why it happened, and how we can change it. I have put in an OPRA request and I have a call into the Director of Union County Dept of Parks & Rec , and will ask him these exact questions. I encourage everyone here to do the same.
Ronal Zuber - 908-527-4910
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No legal basis? That canard has been debunked. But thank you for broadcasting your punches.
 
Shorepoints said:
Hikeronly,
I appreciate and am encouraged that you have answered half my question, specifically, "I would be supportive of whatever the county decides...", but you still haven't answered the other half: Why are you do opposed to bikes in WR? Did someone crash into you? Was someone rude to you? Do you feel we ruin the trails (despite consistent research proving hiking/biking have comparable impact)? Fellow members of the Union County MTB community and I will be making diplomatic efforts to legitimize MTB at Watchung, and along with this will come the support of JORBA and it's history of quality trail maintenance, enhancement, and etiquette consistent with its network of parks where hikers/horses/bikes coexist happily without incident.

Kudos to you for jumping into this lion's den. Please try to ignore the insults/baiting. We are trying to work towards a solution here. There is a right way to do things, as you say, and we've been doing this through JORBA for years, with disappointingly slow results despite the fact that the County has drafted a trail plan to include bikes and has every intention of including bikes at Watchung. It is just moving at a glacial pace and with mixed messages via sign removal, and now sign reinstallation.
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I will try to answer as best I can, or choose to. There are many reasons why I believe that biking and hiking do not mix well in Watchung Reservation. That's all I have to say about that at this time. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. The reason or reasons might be something entirely different that what we might speculate.
 
Wow...should this guy run for office what? With answer like that he'd fit right in with the two we have two choose from this time around.

@ hikeronly isn't going to give you a straight answer @Shorepoints, nor w-b ,does he seem inclined will give us any real insight into his motivations. A shame that, as would sincerely love to hear what they are so we could at least understand them,and possibly find some sort of common ground.
 
hikeronly said:
I will try to answer as best I can, or choose to. There are many reasons why I believe that biking and hiking do not mix well in Watchung Reservation. That's all I have to say about that at this time. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. The reason or reasons might be something entirely different that what we might speculate.
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if that is your best, I find it sorely lacking.

is it WR itself that causes these many reasons you have, which you choose not to elaborate on, or do you feel the same way regarding trails in general?

from my perspective it is no different at WR than anywhere else, regarding trail access and etiquette. please do not make us speculate on your motivation; air them out and we can work for compromise for the benefit of all trail users!
 
This @hikeronly must either work for Union County or is retired. Because he has a lot of free time on his hands and knows much more than a concerned hiker would. Wouldn't be surprised if he was the one throwing the wrench in the works.
 
I have been following this thread with great interest and some disappointment. I rode Watchung back when it was legal in the early 90's and stopped when we were banned, and have not been there since. When I heard that we may again be able to enjoy what this park has to offer I was hopeful. As I read through this on going thread, that hope is gone, it seems to me that dispite the efforts made by JORBA and the bike community, the deep anti bike fervor is entrenched with the people whom hold the cards. It is sad that hikeronly has to come on here and act like a bratty little bully rubbing the ban in our faces. There is and was no reasson for him to come on here other than that. He seems more apt to stir the pot then offer thoughts and ideas on how to work together and reach a workable compromise that could / would benefit all trail users. I don't post here often and I just wanted to express my gut feeling over this ongoing debate. Ride on and be safe.
 
I find the notion of "hiking" funny. There is no hiking in NJ, everything here is a nature walk. If you want to actually "hike", you know break out your ski-pole like walking sticks and backpacks, you need to go to VT, Maine, the Daks, etc. You know, actually climb a real mountain. How far of a hike, I mean walk, do you actually go on in Watchung, and how is a bike pissing in your cheerios (99% walkers that I've come across these days all seemed pleasant)?
 
mtbiker87 said:
Wow...should this guy run for office what? With answer like that he'd fit right in with the two we have two choose from this time around.

@ hikeronly isn't going to give you a straight answer @Shorepoints, nor w-b ,does he seem inclined will give us any real insight into his motivations. A shame that, as would sincerely love to hear what they are so we could at least understand them,and possibly find some sort of common ground.
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In my opinion, there should be no common ground with bikers in the strictly literal sense, to wit specifically on the hiking trails of Watchung Reservation. At other venues, yes, but not here.
TheGerd said:
I have been following this thread with great interest and some disappointment. I rode Watchung back when it was legal in the early 90's and stopped when we were banned, and have not been there since. When I heard that we may again be able to enjoy what this park has to offer I was hopeful. As I read through this on going thread, that hope is gone, it seems to me that dispite the efforts made by JORBA and the bike community, the deep anti bike fervor is entrenched with the people whom hold the cards. It is sad that hikeronly has to come on here and act like a bratty little bully rubbing the ban in our faces. There is and was no reasson for him to come on here other than that. He seems more apt to stir the pot then offer thoughts and ideas on how to work together and reach a workable compromise that could / would benefit all trail users. I don't post here often and I just wanted to express my gut feeling over this ongoing debate. Ride on and be safe.
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The bratty bullies are the ones who have been repeatedly breaking the law and displaying similar belligerence on line. Once again, please respect the ban or face fine and/or confiscation.
 
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While you're attempting to get some answers, it's only adding fuel to the fire that is the current situation. Making assumptions as to the who the "hiker" is or isn't won't help. Keep positive a message online and obey the ban if there is indeed a bigger plan being worked.
 
hikeronly said:
In my opinion, there should be no common ground with bikers in the strictly literal sense, meaning on the hiking trails of Watchung Reservation. At other venues, yes, but not here.
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Do you hike anywhere other than Watchung?
 
JimN said:
Do you hike anywhere other than Watchung?
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What kind of a question is that? Yes, I have and likely will in the future. Let's keep the conversation in context. This is not about biking per se but rather about biking on the trails of Watchung Reservation, which is illegal at this time and for the foreseeable future.

I'm just one person with an opinion. Anyone can google. There's a treasure trove of information that anyone can access about the subject at hand.
 
rlb said:
Also it's clear that you know some of the folks here, so why not introduce yourself by name/occupation?
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I was thinking the same thing when he (she?) called @thegock by name. I mean I know it probably there somewhere in past posts, so it could be that too...

This thread seems near an end. I've never ridden there, and was hoping to once I get the bike in proper working order (read as replaced) next year.

Whether we agree with it or not, or how it came to be, currently there is no biking at WR. @hikeronly has made this clear, as have the signs. We all know that JORBA and others are and have been working with the officials that hold the keys. Riding there now will NOT HELP. None of us agree with the ban, but it's there. We still don't know what the motivation is from this individual who keeps stirring the pot. Calling them names or speculating on their mindset isn't going to do anything, as the question has been asked numerous times with not a single answer to the actual question. Let's try one more time... @hikeronly was there an incident specific to you that has led to your personal belief that the trails can not be shared? Following on that, have you ever hiked on trails at other parks where bikes are permitted? Was there an incident there? Have you ever been to parks where there are specific hiking only trails, mixed use trails, and horse only trails? There's so much land there..... Can't we all just get along?

Short of actually getting answers to those questions, this should just stop. Work with the officials. Local tax payers push for fair use. Present logical arguments for change to those that can effect change. etc, etc, etc. I'd love to have another trail network to take the NICA kids to. This would have been a nice change.

Ride safe.
 
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