trump vs hillary

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For the handful of Trump supporters who may care about his actual policies: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...p-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801
Note that most of these are related to his core issues. He's had at least 8 years to solidify his platform and it changes every 15 minutes. He didn't prepare for the debate and he's not doing his homework to prepare for the job. I'd love to see someone who's honest and has fresh ideas, but he's not the guy.
 
Supermoto said:
How can we support a candidate that lied to parents of those who were killed in Benghazi? You can't vote for either with a clean conscious. So hold your nose and pull the lever. Or stay home, drink some beer and realize that you're F'ed no matter who gets in.
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Priority number one for any politician is to get elected so you're right it really doesn't matter. How do we get them to care about anything else? At least Donald is old, has billions and I can't fathom why he would want this job. At least finally someone who might actually care more about the country than getting reelected. We need to start caring about ourselves more than blowing up chunks of sand on the other side of the world. Our national debt is 1 million dollars per family and at least 25% of that was due to these wars we're in. Wouldn't you rather have $250k in the bank instead of dropping it from the sky in the middle east?
 
SmooveP said:
For the handful of Trump supporters who may care about his actual policies: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...p-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801
Note that most of these are related to his core issues. He's had at least 8 years to solidify his platform and it changes every 15 minutes. He didn't prepare for the debate and he's not doing his homework to prepare for the job. I'd love to see someone who's honest and has fresh ideas, but he's not the guy.
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Yeah but he's not a politician so that's expected. Hillary has a long list of policy changes, many fairly recent. But then again she lies so frequently who knows what she really stands for.
 
rick81721 said:
Yeah but he's not a politician so that's expected. Hillary has a long list of policy changes, many fairly recent. But then again she lies so frequently who knows what she really stands for.
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He's a politician in the worst sense of the word. All politics, no experience. He's been gearing up for his presidential run for at least 8 years. He's been judged by the fact checking organizations as the least truthful candidate ever, by a huge margin. Clinton at least offers up believable rationale for her policy shifts. Trump outright denies his previous statements. His whole persona is a lie. He has an Ivy League education but he talks like the loudmouth 3 stools down at the local bar. Won't show his tax returns. Also, his grand entrance into presidential politics was built on a lie - the ridiculous birther ploy. I could go on....
 
SmooveP said:
He's a politician in the worst sense of the word. All politics, no experience. He's been gearing up for his presidential run for at least 8 years. He's been judged by the fact checking organizations as the least truthful candidate ever, by a huge margin. Clinton at least offers up believable rationale for her policy shifts. Trump outright denies his previous statements. His whole persona is a lie. He has an Ivy League education but he talks like the loudmouth 3 stools down at the local bar. Won't show his tax returns. Also, his grand entrance into presidential politics was built on a lie - the ridiculous birther ploy. I could go on....
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You're only fault here is the birther thing. While he did go after Obama on the birther thing, the 2008 Clinton campaign actually came up with the birther story. It was one of the things revealed in the email leaks. They had a strategy to bring doubt on his "Americanness"
So Clinton came up with it, and Donald fell for it. They are both at fault for that.
 
gtluke said:
You're only fault here is the birther thing. While he did go after Obama on the birther thing, the 2008 Clinton campaign actually came up with the birther story. It was one of the things revealed in the email leaks. They had a strategy to bring doubt on his "Americanness"
So Clinton came up with it, and Donald fell for it. They are both at fault for that.
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/
A volunteer Clinton supporter did pass around an email to that effect, but she didn't originate the idea. "There is no record that Clinton herself or anyone within her campaign ever advanced the charge that Obama was not born in the United States. A review by our fellow fact-checkers at Factcheck.org reported that no journalist who investigated this ever found a connection to anyone in the Clinton organization."

Did Trump actually believe it, or was he cynically using it as a cheap attention-grabbing stunt? And which answer would be worse?
 
SmooveP said:
He's a politician in the worst sense of the word. All politics, no experience. He's been gearing up for his presidential run for at least 8 years. He's been judged by the fact checking organizations as the least truthful candidate ever, by a huge margin. Clinton at least offers up believable rationale for her policy shifts. Trump outright denies his previous statements. His whole persona is a lie. He has an Ivy League education but he talks like the loudmouth 3 stools down at the local bar. Won't show his tax returns. Also, his grand entrance into presidential politics was built on a lie - the ridiculous birther ploy. I could go on....
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One could argue that Hillary is the worst kind of politician- a lifelong politician with a solid record of failure and scandal. And she made 10s of millions by creating nothing - no jobs, no product , no services, just on the celebrity of said failed politidal career.

PS don't put so much stock in "fact checkers". Independent studies have shown them to be biased.
 
rick81721 said:
One could argue that Hillary is the worst kind of politician- a lifelong politician with a solid record of failure and scandal. And she made 10s of millions by creating nothing - no jobs, no product , no services, just on the celebrity of said failed politidal career.

PS don't put so much stock in "fact checkers". Independent studies have shown them to be biased.
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It's never been her responsibility to create jobs, products or services and she's not interviewing for a corporate CEO job. Success/failure in public service is subjective. Trump has a long list of his own failures, especially here in NJ.

It's perfectly valid to question the accuracy of the fact checkers. From what I've seen, Politifact is pretty reliable and they typically update their postings if new info becomes available. Got a better option?
 
SmooveP said:
It's never been her responsibility to create jobs, products or services and she's not interviewing for a corporate CEO job. Success/failure in public service is subjective. Trump has a long list of his own failures, especially here in NJ.

It's perfectly valid to question the accuracy of the fact checkers. From what I've seen, Politifact is pretty reliable and they typically update their postings if new info becomes available. Got a better option?
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Failure in n public service is not subjective, it's pretty black and white. The millions she's made have been off of producing nothing, making nothing. As a change of pace, humor us by telling us how she hasn't failed. What's her big contribution to America that she's made over the last 10 years, her big victory? And given how she hasn't done l a damn thing with the power she has, why should I believe she'll do anything other than use the job to further line her pockets? At least Trump is already rich. I'm not exactly over the moon for Trump, but I feel there's a hell a lot more sincerity to his desire to be president than hers.
 
Monkey Soup said:
Failure in n public service is not subjective, it's pretty black and white. The millions she's made have been off of producing nothing, making nothing. As a change of pace, humor us by telling us how she hasn't failed. What's her big contribution to America that she's made over the last 10 years, her big victory? And given how she hasn't done l a damn thing with the power she has, why should I believe she'll do anything other than use the job to further line her pockets? At least Trump is already rich. I'm not exactly over the moon for Trump, but I feel there's a hell a lot more sincerity to his desire to be president than hers.
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I know the Clinton foundation has been doing well, she probably had a hand in that.
 
rick81721 said:
Yes what are Hillary's successes as a carpet bagger senator from NY and then SOS? :popcorn:
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I will start.

Here's one: As Secretary of State, she advocated for taking out Osama bin Laden; despite upsetting the Pakistani government.

She also paid taxes and made charitable contributions, as we can see from her tax returns.

:D:D:D
 
thegock said:
I will start.

Here's one: As Secretary of State, she advocated for taking out Osama bin Laden; despite upsetting the Pakistani government.

She also paid taxes and made charitable contributions, as we can see from her tax returns.

:D:D:D
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UBL was kinda a no brainer, especially after Bill let him go when he had multiple chances

You mean the charitable contributions to her own foundation that has a shitting pass thru rating, huge over head and reeks of pay to play.
 
thegock said:
I will start.

Here's one: As Secretary of State, she advocated for taking out Osama bin Laden; despite upsetting the Pakistani government.


:D:D:D
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Advocating taking out bin Laden, wow that had to be the easiest call of all time.

Hey but she did laugh when Qaddafi was murdered by an angry mob via a shiv in the ass. What a great foreign policy success Libya turned out to be!
 
Monkey Soup said:
Failure in n public service is not subjective, it's pretty black and white. The millions she's made have been off of producing nothing, making nothing. As a change of pace, humor us by telling us how she hasn't failed. What's her big contribution to America that she's made over the last 10 years, her big victory? And given how she hasn't done l a damn thing with the power she has, why should I believe she'll do anything other than use the job to further line her pockets? At least Trump is already rich. I'm not exactly over the moon for Trump, but I feel there's a hell a lot more sincerity to his desire to be president than hers.
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It's subjective in pretty much every way. Your opinion on how they vote, what initiatives they originate, what decisions they make is determined by how they line up with your personal views. Do your own research on what she's done. I'm not a cheerleader for Clinton or anyone else in politics. Being president is a job. I have no interest in hero worship, speeches, flag waving or any of that stuff. I want them to do their homework on the issues, explain their positions and get on with it. I'm curious - when was the last time that any elected official has made a "big contribution"? Feel free to elaborate on the Trump sincerity thing. What's he sincerely going to do if he wins?
 
SmooveP said:
What's he sincerely going to do if he wins?
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he'll have a meeting, then go off script within 4 minutes the first moment something doesn't go his way, start throwing a tantrum, say something he'll deny he said an hour later, then go on a twitter rampage saying some woman is fat and that he'll get his wall built. and it will be beautiful.
 
SmooveP said:
Do your own research on what she's done.
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That's what I was going to suggest for fact checking - do it yourself.

SmooveP said:
Feel free to elaborate on the Trump sincerity thing. What's he sincerely going to do if he wins?
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I'm don't like either of these choices and could still change my vote. But right now I see Hillary as continuing another 4-8 years of what Obama did. Anemic economic growth, failed foreign policy. The markets will probably remain stable which would be good for me personally but not so much for my son who will be trying to get a job out of college in a few years. I see Trump as a wildcard - he might really shake things up and make some real positive changes, or he might really screw things up. One thing is for sure, it won't be the status quo.
 
[QUOTE="Supermoto, post: 683225, member: 9374"
You mean the charitable contributions to her own foundation that has a shitting pass thru rating, huge over head and reeks of pay to play.[/QUOTE]

The pass through rate (program percentage) of the Clinton Foundation is 88% according to Charitywatch.org, which rates it as "A".

https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings-and-metrics/bill-hillary-chelsea-clinton-foundation/478

Oh, and the Clinton Foundation raised $325,000,000 in 2014 v. the tRump Foundation, which raised $500,000.

But then again, the Clinton Foundation didn't buy a six foot portrait of Donnie tRump...
 
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