How the hell are we supposed to retire?

its pretty much impossible to be more of a moron than to throw a huge "I am awesome" party, related to a mis-named piece of legislation, that is expected to have no impact on the current issues (other than make them worse), on a day that the metrics which you claim you are fixing, are all virtually going the opposite direction. but just remember, no mean tweets will get your retirement savings back.
 
its pretty much impossible to be more of a moron than to throw a huge "I am awesome" party, related to a mis-named piece of legislation, that is expected to have no impact on the current issues (other than make them worse), on a day that the metrics which you claim you are fixing, are all virtually going the opposite direction. but just remember, no mean tweets will get your retirement savings back.

39CBB8CE-17CF-477F-992E-0956133744C9_w1080_h608_s.jpg
 
As someone who had a good chunk of $$ in that fund, I wish I exited much sooner. :) :(

With the FED raising rates I'm thinking it's worth staying in cash for a little longer...?

Same dividend reinvested so it is on sale.

My bond fund tho....ouch
 
“Early Retirement Risks
And in general, people who retire at 55 are 89 percent more likely to die within ten years than those that retire at 65. Social Security has noticed this trend, as well. Men that retire at 62 have a 20 percent higher likelihood of death than the general population.”

If the goal is a long life - retirement sounds overrated.

I can retire in 4 years - no Chance I’d even consider it .
 
“Early Retirement Risks
And in general, people who retire at 55 are 89 percent more likely to die within ten years than those that retire at 65. Social Security has noticed this trend, as well. Men that retire at 62 have a 20 percent higher likelihood of death than the general population.”

If the goal is a long life - retirement sounds overrated.

I can retire in 4 years - no Chance I’d even consider it .
Um, maybe a lot of people retire early as their health is failing, therefore don't live long into retirement?
 
“Early Retirement Risks
And in general, people who retire at 55 are 89 percent more likely to die within ten years than those that retire at 65. Social Security has noticed this trend, as well. Men that retire at 62 have a 20 percent higher likelihood of death than the general population.”

If the goal is a long life - retirement sounds overrated.

I can retire in 4 years - no Chance I’d even consider it .

i think wherever you quoted that from needs to re familiarize themself with the difference between correlation and causation.
 
Um, maybe a lot of people retire early as their health is failing, therefore don't live long into retirement?
Maybe - but there are a lot of people who focus everything on “ early retirement “ and for whatever reason don’t live as long.

But the fact remains;
You’re Likely to Live Longer If You Retire After 65.

“To prove causation, the gold standard would be to do a randomized control trial, and it’s probably unethical”

Harvard business review- https://hbr.org/2016/10/youre-likely-to-live-longer-if-you-retire-after-65

Flipside admittedly there are journals that counter this research.
 
Maybe - but there are a lot of people who focus everything on “ early retirement “ and for whatever reason don’t live as long.

But the fact remains;
You’re Likely to Live Longer If You Retire After 65.

“To prove causation, the gold standard would be to do a randomized control trial, and it’s probably unethical”

Harvard business review- https://hbr.org/2016/10/youre-likely-to-live-longer-if-you-retire-after-65

Flipside admittedly there are journals that counter this research.
Um, maybe a lot of people retire early as their health is failing, therefore don't live long into retirement?
Yeah, this. The statement "But the fact remains You likely live longer if you retire after 65" is a classic "USA Today" blunder. You know how years ago, when USA Today always had those "infographics" on their front page? At the time, the annual American Statistical Association meeting used to have an informal contest to see who could present the most egregiously BS USA Today infographic statistic. (What can I say? This is what statisticians considered "fun".) The point is, there were enough of them in a year that were so bad they could spark a semi-serious debate among people who understood that sort of thing as to which among many was the worst. This is that, albeit from Harvard Business Review.

In this case, the lack of a randomized control trial is understandable because of the question of ethics, but it also carries with it the obligation not to report this the way they do. I mean the title of that article is "You're likely to live longer if you retire after 65", not "Without being able to reasonably control for factors that would confirm or deny the notion of dependence, the best we can say is there is a correlation between age of death and age of retirement". So HBR is being sensational where they should be cautious. Probably 99% of the people who see that headline will take it on faith (why wouldn't you? It's Harvard after all!) and won't have the understanding necessary to see beyond the implied causality. Another paper by Harvard's neighbor down the road - Boston College - found that "Health is the most important driver of early retirement, followed by layoffs or business closings, and then familial factors. Changes in finances play at most a small role." (Munnell, Sanzenbacher & Rutledge, "What Causes Workers to Retire Before They Plan?" 2015) All of the top three carry with them some degree of hardship or increased stress, which could itself confirm the notion that the relationship between death and retirement is correlative not causal in nature. Just one example of those that, as @GreenMachine says, counters HBR's research. But even if it was the only one that did so, the fact that it exists and HBR is titling their article in such a sensational way knowing how people consume information in sound bytes these days is a real mark against HBR. They should know better.

I absolutely HATE this kind of nonsense (possibly more so than ever right now because I'm living with this kind of crapy every day at the moment.) It's marketing not science. It's like that absolute shit called the "1% Better Every Day" movement. We had a presentation on that at a work meeting recently and two minutes into it I turned the guy sitting next to me and told him to do himself a favor and stop listening and that whoever chose this for a presentation was an idiot for making us listen to this shit. He asked why and I told him that the concept of "1% better" is the kind of sound byte morons hang on their office walls on a poster but is in actuality a trivially impossible goal. We're supposed to be a group of "data scientists" (i.e., the 21st century term for what used to be a statistician) so we should all know that 1% better is an impossible unsustainable goal. He looked at me like "But it's only 1%" so I gave him an example. I told him to assume you could deadlift 100 lbs. and you set a goal to improve that by 1% every day for a year. The first few days - no problem - you only have to lift 101 lbs on day 1, 102.01 on day two, etc. Do you know what you'd have to deadlift on day 365? 3778 lbs., which is like more than 3 times the world record. Asking for "1% better everyday" is bullshit sloganeering that can only work on people with zero understanding of exponential processes, which is fine for, say, a room full of sales reps whose job is not to understand that kind of stuff, but not something you should expect of a room full of data scientists. And this doesn't even scratch the service on the obvious question related to office work - what exactly IS "1% better" in that arena? Regardless of that, you're still expecting people to be 37.78 times better than they were a year later. Do any of you know ANYONE who is demonstrably almost 40X better at their job today than they were a year ago? Probably not, unless they were essentially tabula rasa a year ago and now have some measurable knowledge. In that veery limited subset of people - yeah, I concede that slapdick's "1% better" goal is achievable.

(BTW, to tie all this back together, the preceding paragraph is why I personally plan to be one of those Harvard says will die early ...)
 
You wrote a pile of bloviation based on what you want to believe

If you dial it back - I clearly said there are studies that will argue both sides .

If you re- read the research states and I quoted - it’s impossible or ethical to have what you’re asking .

But many samples exist - that show what I stated.

Retiring at 66+​

Working longer seems to reduce the likelihood of early death. Healthy workersthat continued to work until they were 66 had an 11 percent reduced mortality risk. Workers with health conditions that worked until they were 66 still had a 9 percent reduced mortality risk.

I’ll stick with the research

 
“Early Retirement Risks
And in general, people who retire at 55 are 89 percent more likely to die within ten years than those that retire at 65. Social Security has noticed this trend, as well. Men that retire at 62 have a 20 percent higher likelihood of death than the general population.”

If the goal is a long life - retirement sounds overrated.

I can retire in 4 years - no Chance I’d even consider it .
Yeah, this. The statement "But the fact remains You likely live longer if you retire after 65" is a classic "USA Today" blunder. You know how years ago, when USA Today always had those "infographics" on their front page? At the time, the annual American Statistical Association meeting used to have an informal contest to see who could present the most egregiously BS USA Today infographic statistic. (What can I say? This is what statisticians considered "fun".) The point is, there were enough of them in a year that were so bad they could spark a semi-serious debate among people who understood that sort of thing as to which among many was the worst. This is that, albeit from Harvard Business Review.

In this case, the lack of a randomized control trial is understandable because of the question of ethics, but it also carries with it the obligation not to report this the way they do. I mean the title of that article is "You're likely to live longer if you retire after 65", not "Without being able to reasonably control for factors that would confirm or deny the notion of dependence, the best we can say is there is a correlation between age of death and age of retirement". So HBR is being sensational where they should be cautious. Probably 99% of the people who see that headline will take it on faith (why wouldn't you? It's Harvard after all!) and won't have the understanding necessary to see beyond the implied causality. Another paper by Harvard's neighbor down the road - Boston College - found that "Health is the most important driver of early retirement, followed by layoffs or business closings, and then familial factors. Changes in finances play at most a small role." (Munnell, Sanzenbacher & Rutledge, "What Causes Workers to Retire Before They Plan?" 2015) All of the top three carry with them some degree of hardship or increased stress, which could itself confirm the notion that the relationship between death and retirement is correlative not causal in nature. Just one example of those that, as @GreenMachine says, counters HBR's research. But even if it was the only one that did so, the fact that it exists and HBR is titling their article in such a sensational way knowing how people consume information in sound bytes these days is a real mark against HBR. They should know better.

I absolutely HATE this kind of nonsense (possibly more so than ever right now because I'm living with this kind of crapy every day at the moment.) It's marketing not science. It's like that absolute shit called the "1% Better Every Day" movement. We had a presentation on that at a work meeting recently and two minutes into it I turned the guy sitting next to me and told him to do himself a favor and stop listening and that whoever chose this for a presentation was an idiot for making us listen to this shit. He asked why and I told him that the concept of "1% better" is the kind of sound byte morons hang on their office walls on a poster but is in actuality a trivially impossible goal. We're supposed to be a group of "data scientists" (i.e., the 21st century term for what used to be a statistician) so we should all know that 1% better is an impossible unsustainable goal. He looked at me like "But it's only 1%" so I gave him an example. I told him to assume you could deadlift 100 lbs. and you set a goal to improve that by 1% every day for a year. The first few days - no problem - you only have to lift 101 lbs on day 1, 102.01 on day two, etc. Do you know what you'd have to deadlift on day 365? 3778 lbs., which is like more than 3 times the world record. Asking for "1% better everyday" is bullshit sloganeering that can only work on people with zero understanding of exponential processes, which is fine for, say, a room full of sales reps whose job is not to understand that kind of stuff, but not something you should expect of a room full of data scientists. And this doesn't even scratch the service on the obvious question related to office work - what exactly IS "1% better" in that arena? Regardless of that, you're still expecting people to be 37.78 times better than they were a year later. Do any of you know ANYONE who is demonstrably almost 40X better at their job today than they were a year ago? Probably not, unless they were essentially tabula rasa a year ago and now have some measurable knowledge. In that veery limited subset of people - yeah, I concede that slapdick's "1% better" goal is achievable.

(BTW, to tie all this back together, the preceding paragraph is why I personally plan to be one of those Harvard says will die early ...)
37% of statistics are false.

but also...
1664887239309.png
 
“Early Retirement Risks
And in general, people who retire at 55 are 89 percent more likely to die within ten years than those that retire at 65. Social Security has noticed this trend, as well. Men that retire at 62 have a 20 percent higher likelihood of death than the general population.”

If the goal is a long life - retirement sounds overrated.

I can retire in 4 years - no Chance I’d even consider it .

Ridiculous study. The majority of these studies in multiple countries shows the opposite effect:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/upshot/early-retirement-longevity-health-wellness.html
 
You wrote a pile of bloviation based on what you want to believe

If you dial it back - I clearly said there are studies that will argue both sides .

If you re- read the research states and I quoted - it’s impossible or ethical to have what you’re asking .

But many samples exist - that show what I stated.

Retiring at 66+​

Working longer seems to reduce the likelihood of early death. Healthy workersthat continued to work until they were 66 had an 11 percent reduced mortality risk. Workers with health conditions that worked until they were 66 still had a 9 percent reduced mortality risk.

I’ll stick with the research

Well if you actually read what I wrote, you'd see that, first, I actually acknwoledged you saying that there are studies that argue both sides. And second, I never said they need to DO the unethical studies - I simply said because they CAN'T do them, they shouldn't title their article to imply causality that cannot be inferred from what is available to them because most people who see an article like that either won't read far beyond the title or they won't have the statistical background necessary to get the often subtle difference between correlation and causality. (And, for the record, I do recognize the kind of on-the-nose nature of this as a reply here.)

But you know what? You're right - stick with the research. Keep working.
 
Ridiculous study. The majority of these studies in multiple countries shows the opposite effect:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/upshot/early-retirement-longevity-health-wellness.html
We’re talking about America
During the study period, about 12 percent of the healthy and 25.6 percent of the unhealthy retirees died. Healthy retirees who worked a year longer had an 11 percent lower risk of mortality, while unhealthy retirees who worked a year longer had a 9 percent lower mortality risk. Working a year longer had a positive impact on the study participants' .


There are too many examples to post that back my first post .
 
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