You can build any(1) feature/ modify a trail what and where would it be?

JimN

Captain Wildcat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
you still have to ride some of the fire road to get to four birds.

True, but it's a super short section, at least compared to the woods road section of orange after the white spine. And the second half of it is only a fire road because people stopped riding the original line to the left and made what Pat would not consider a cheater line to the right of it.
 

JimN

Captain Wildcat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
You know that bridge they just installed at Wildcat? I would replace it with a big ass teeter totter.

The trail leading to this new bridge makes the Splitrock trail at Waway look like Black Bear at Kingdom Trails.
 

1speed

Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
No question in my mind with this one - rip out the water bars in Houston Meadow at Wiss and replace them with something that didn't originate in the mind of someone straight out of 1992. The idea of adding steps to any trail - whether with wooden water bars or even rocks - continues to baffle me. I'm no civil engineer, but it seems that anytime a water bars or steps are added to a trail to stop erosion, all they ever do in reality is concentrate the erosion in the area right in front of the bars/steps. There are three sections of Wiss that have this type of build (the meadow, the steps off Bells Mill Trail head, and the steps off the golf course) and in all three the steps are now about 2-3X the size they were when they were first installed. I just don't get why anyone would think that's a good thing. Meanwhile, the sections that are considered more primitive and natural remain largely unchanged over the years. They ebb and flow with big storms, but left to their own devices they pretty much settle back in to their natural state. It seems like anywhere they've tried to outwit nature without completely redesigning the direction of the trail, it's gone poorly. (That said, I'm not trying to trash the guys who work on the trail there - they've done some great work in many sections. I just seems like they are either limited in what they're allowed to do with hills or they have a genuine blindspot when it comes to how steeper sections respond to fortifications.)
 

mtn

Well-Known Member
No question in my mind with this one - rip out the water bars in Houston Meadow at Wiss and replace them with something that didn't originate in the mind of someone straight out of 1992. The idea of adding steps to any trail - whether with wooden water bars or even rocks - continues to baffle me. I'm no civil engineer, but it seems that anytime a water bars or steps are added to a trail to stop erosion, all they ever do in reality is concentrate the erosion in the area right in front of the bars/steps. There are three sections of Wiss that have this type of build (the meadow, the steps off Bells Mill Trail head, and the steps off the golf course) and in all three the steps are now about 2-3X the size they were when they were first installed. I just don't get why anyone would think that's a good thing. Meanwhile, the sections that are considered more primitive and natural remain largely unchanged over the years. They ebb and flow with big storms, but left to their own devices they pretty much settle back in to their natural state. It seems like anywhere they've tried to outwit nature without completely redesigning the direction of the trail, it's gone poorly. (That said, I'm not trying to trash the guys who work on the trail there - they've done some great work in many sections. I just seems like they are either limited in what they're allowed to do with hills or they have a genuine blindspot when it comes to how steeper sections respond to fortifications.)
Properly designed water bars do actually save the trail from erosion. The whole basis behind it is to divert the water off the trail before the water can gain enough speed to become destructive and erode the whole trail. Yes, it does erode the area at the water bar, but the repair is concentrated.
 

JDurk

Well-Known Member
No question in my mind with this one - rip out the water bars in Houston Meadow at Wiss and replace them with something that didn't originate in the mind of someone straight out of 1992. The idea of adding steps to any trail - whether with wooden water bars or even rocks - continues to baffle me. I'm no civil engineer, but it seems that anytime a water bars or steps are added to a trail to stop erosion, all they ever do in reality is concentrate the erosion in the area right in front of the bars/steps. There are three sections of Wiss that have this type of build (the meadow, the steps off Bells Mill Trail head, and the steps off the golf course) and in all three the steps are now about 2-3X the size they were when they were first installed. I just don't get why anyone would think that's a good thing. Meanwhile, the sections that are considered more primitive and natural remain largely unchanged over the years. They ebb and flow with big storms, but left to their own devices they pretty much settle back in to their natural state. It seems like anywhere they've tried to outwit nature without completely redesigning the direction of the trail, it's gone poorly. (That said, I'm not trying to trash the guys who work on the trail there - they've done some great work in many sections. I just seems like they are either limited in what they're allowed to do with hills or they have a genuine blindspot when it comes to how steeper sections respond to fortifications.)
The water bars of the Meadows have definitely gotten taller, and annoying. Seems they control the speed of riders to the "7mph" rule pretty well. The rocks on the golf course climb have always been challenging, they've just got more challenging.
 
Last edited:

Ian F

Well-Known Member
I would build a tunnel under South Middlebush Road...and Chimney Rock Road, and Newman's Lane.
A tunnel would be hell to keep from getting flooded. A bridge would be nice. Likewise, a bridge at the end of Red Trail so you don't have to get on the road (which I've always surmised is why that trail is not talked about...).

And I agree with 1speed about "repair" efforts at the Wiss. Most of those trails have barely changed at all in the 30 years I've been riding there. To say they are "unsustainable" is B.S.
 

Ian F

Well-Known Member
there is a bridge like that over 287 off of skyline, I forget if it is fenced up or if it is the cliffs over 287 thats fenced off, I'm sure I have pictures
The Cannonball Trail bridge?

That is (or at least "was") a fairly spicy run. I did that trail as part of a shuttle-day way back when there were a few DH runs at Ramapo. Around 2002, after Mtn Creek closed to biking and prior to Diablo reopening the trails.
 

A Potted Plant

Honorary Sod
The Cannonball Trail bridge?

That is (or at least "was") a fairly spicy run. I did that trail as part of a shuttle-day way back when there were a few DH runs at Ramapo. Around 2002, after Mtn Creek closed to biking and prior to Diablo reopening the trails.

You could ride the gravel around the little lake there to get to it
 
Top Bottom