What new thread is Patrick creating now?

Not really - since I have been on here (10 years or so) the participation has been down from my observation.

I am sure you have the data (and won’t share everything, why would you) - but the site has been watered down with non-cycling things. People that participated regularly with solid cycling context were banned/blocked/or ridiculed for not falling in line. Unfortunately the content they provided was not replaced with cycling content - it was replaced with things not related to cycling - there are better sites for that.

While I love your enthusiasm…….yawn.

Will this get me another secret thirty day ban?
 
your statistics concerning total posts are correct - but your cause is wrong.
 
People that participated regularly with solid cycling context were banned/blocked/or ridiculed for not falling in line.

Like who? Looking at the admin panel, there is a single discouraged user from the former "regulars" on the site. I kicked Max out maybe 2 years ago for being an asshole but otherwise, I don't think I've banned anyone else in like 2-3 years.

To your overall point, yes the content is watered down. IMO it is a natural progression of any message board. I have been on the internet since the beginning of time and it's how they all end up. How many times can you talk tires? You generally trend towards "a collection of people who like the same thing talking about not the thing you all like" - I have never seen a message board go any other way.

Exception is the college sports board. During the season(s), you have games. We as a collection of riders have drifted away from events, so we have lost that aspect. The races that used to get 500 people (LMC) now struggle to get half that. Cross is dead. And road racing is not something that was ever popular. Pro racing is very rarely talked about, though sure you get the TdF thread every year but I personally cannot follow it.

I get that we/Team MTBNJ used to drive a lot of that content. But my kids are all teenagers now and frankly the people on this message board DGAF about my kids as a general statement. Ushering 2 of them into college is my priority now. Racing and holding events is pretty low on my priority list. Truth be told, weeding my garden is more important to me.

When MTBNJ started, MTBR was the primary. We took that over because a lot of us were new. Now you have YDKS which is a FB-based group. The people I know on that group are just fine & dandy and good people. They would all fit well here IMO. But personally, I do not like the FB format so I don't do any of that. If they started a message board, I am sure I would join it. They may take over, or have taken over for us already. It's ok. My identity is not tied to this message board or anything.

OK long post short - I agree with you. In a way it makes me sad that the content sucks. I login every day and maybe 1 thread per day is of interest. I suppose I could help that. I have been thinking about this out of state wiki material for a while now. For me, the most interesting thing is learning more about stuff within 6 hours or so. Then trying to ride it. And remember it. Adding content to that would at least help. Aside from that, IDK what else I would personally post that would generate interest. Sure I blog now & again. But it's sort of like an on-again-off-again hobby.

Anyway, I appreciate the kick in the nuts trying to make the internet a better place.
 
Like who? Looking at the admin panel, there is a single discouraged user from the former "regulars" on the site. I kicked Max out maybe 2 years ago for being an asshole but otherwise, I don't think I've banned anyone else in like 2-3 years.

To your overall point, yes the content is watered down. IMO it is a natural progression of any message board. I have been on the internet since the beginning of time and it's how they all end up. How many times can you talk tires? You generally trend towards "a collection of people who like the same thing talking about not the thing you all like" - I have never seen a message board go any other way.

Exception is the college sports board. During the season(s), you have games. We as a collection of riders have drifted away from events, so we have lost that aspect. The races that used to get 500 people (LMC) now struggle to get half that. Cross is dead. And road racing is not something that was ever popular. Pro racing is very rarely talked about, though sure you get the TdF thread every year but I personally cannot follow it.

I get that we/Team MTBNJ used to drive a lot of that content. But my kids are all teenagers now and frankly the people on this message board DGAF about my kids as a general statement. Ushering 2 of them into college is my priority now. Racing and holding events is pretty low on my priority list. Truth be told, weeding my garden is more important to me.

When MTBNJ started, MTBR was the primary. We took that over because a lot of us were new. Now you have YDKS which is a FB-based group. The people I know on that group are just fine & dandy and good people. They would all fit well here IMO. But personally, I do not like the FB format so I don't do any of that. If they started a message board, I am sure I would join it. They may take over, or have taken over for us already. It's ok. My identity is not tied to this message board or anything.

OK long post short - I agree with you. In a way it makes me sad that the content sucks. I login every day and maybe 1 thread per day is of interest. I suppose I could help that. I have been thinking about this out of state wiki material for a while now. For me, the most interesting thing is learning more about stuff within 6 hours or so. Then trying to ride it. And remember it. Adding content to that would at least help. Aside from that, IDK what else I would personally post that would generate interest. Sure I blog now & again. But it's sort of like an on-again-off-again hobby.

Anyway, I appreciate the kick in the nuts trying to make the internet a better place.

Part of this is coming from my perspective which I should state as this - I do not look at this thread as a team site for MTBNJ - frankly when my wife stumbled upon the site in 2013 and then showed me I was blown away with how well laid out it was (user friendly) and embodied cycling in every aspect in NJ. It showed where to ride, how to get there, where to park and allowed members to interface with the people that maintained and celebrated those trails. It showed the chronicles of peoples cycling journey (be it fitness, racing, goals, exploration) and allowed you to interface with those people. I ATE IT UP - All of it. I cannot thank everyone that Participated enough as it brought cycling back into my life as an adult. Is that vibe still there? - in a way - you have to sift through a lot of fodder to get there now.

That being said a core point of my ramblings - I look at this as “New Jersey’s Mountain Bike Website” - not the teams. Selfish of me - maybe!

I don’t want to get into who got banned or pushed out (or even if they were) as that may be just as polarizing as the current politics of this country - but we lost a lot of cycling content in a sport/hobby that is not top of most peoples to do list. They’re were characters, just like in WWF or a reality show - sure we loved some and loathed others - but that in itself was part of the fun of the site - even more fun come race day!

Top of my mind is also succession - what was the succession plan? Yes there is NiCA, but there is an age gap between NICA and the board that seems to be missed (let’s generalize at 20-30 year olds). During my Allaire maintenance days of working on the park once a week on my own time I was approached by users in this group that felt ousted by this community - while I don’t use the FB groups (or FB too much) some of those riders had a pretty loud voice and took to those groups. If feels like we are missing that bracket - of the stronger Allaire riders I knew, many were turned off by some of the antics I note in this post and left the site or were banned for not falling in line with the collective - yes there are exceptions to this rule that I too am happy no longer participate.

Now comes the part of my writing where I dwell on how easy it is to complain but how difficult it is to offer a sound solution. But I fall back to the note that I am one person with a unique opinion, someone may be out there collecting these opinions and trying to right the ship and maybe it will help - maybe it will add to laughs around a campfire post ride for others - or maybe it will be fuel for people steer clear of me.

@Norm - as the leader of the site you were present in person at events and offered, what I feel, is a calm and collected demeanor - you allowed the community to thrive and create/grow as nature would allow it. YOU SET THE TONE FOR THE COMMUNITY. You were my President. Did/do you step in as needed? Sure, but it felt minimal and natural - I will try to get a laugh here - but almost like Jerry Springer once the cake has been thrown across the stage and all of the guests look like they went through a cement mixer - then you came in and sent everyone to their corners and made peace.

I like Patrick and I think he is a good person/means well - but this site feels like his personal TikTok at times - he is everywhere and shares an opinion on Everything (he/you are allowed) - it is overwhelming and dilutes what I feel was the original purpose of the site - cycling. As an outsider of the team - PATRICK SETS THE TONE OF THE SITE NOW AND HAS BEEN FOR SOME TIME - Is he trying to drive content/clicks with non-cycling related content? Maybe, but that works for a short period of time until things divert from the mission statement - which I ignorantly assume is a cycling site guided by my selfish view that this is “New Jerseys Cycling Website” and not the teams. As someone that is looking for core cycling content - I am not sure I would consider him to be a “core cyclist” compared to some of the storied MTBNJ team members or past/present users - throw tomatoes at me all that you want - I don’t consider myself to be one either compared to said riders. Is it a collective of all this members driving content - yes - while I have not seen the numbers, it seems apparent by my scrolling that someone post substantially more than others - and that person has the keys to the castle.

Further amplifying this is the use of the ban/block/“ button. Over the last ten years, this really has slid into what I consider “Patrick’s MTBNJ”. The puppet master needs to be silent and let the children play - when you are the puppet master and are the number one user per content and can ban those that disagree - well that is no fun - then the narrative/free thinking leaves the building and the core of that belief are left talking while other are left walking. Maybe that is what is wanted - again - my selfish feeling of “New Jersey’s Cycling Website”

Maybe I am old and stuck in my ways, but I miss “Norms MTBNJ”. I get that you aren’t as involved in racing anymore - but when I want “Norm Content” I can go to your blog. Do you post occasionally elsewhere, sure. Selfishly I admit - I am sure your plate outside of this site is VERY full, handing the keys off to others may be something you needed or part of the plan - and I do feel somewhat out of line for posting this.

The Central NJ debate is a fun one, and maybe there are internal conversations between Team MTBNJ members I am missing - but that fact that Patrick thinks he can solve the problem and make that decision highlights some of these issues - for outsiders of the team maybe this was something best left unchanged given the current climate of the site.
 
The Central NJ debate is a fun one, and maybe there are internal conversations between Team MTBNJ members I am missing - but that fact that Patrick thinks he can solve the problem and make that decision highlights some of these issues - for outsiders of the team maybe this was something best left unchanged given the current climate of the site.

Ok I deleted the bulk of the message but wanted you to be notified that I replied to you. I am going to ask a series of questions. Also, I am going to say that you have now become the spokesman for the New Jersey EveryMan. Also, I trust that you are trying to help and make it better, so I am not trying to bait you into anything. I legit value your feedback.

1. Do you think the overall site format is less user-friendly today than it was in 2013?
1a. If so, is that because "actual content" doesn't really exist on the site anymore and it's all just buried in the slurry of threads?
2. The succession plan is a problem everywhere. As a pretty active JORBA rep, we have this conversation all the time. Kirt and I are dumping a lot of time & effort into CR/Cromwell. We both know that in 5 years we may both be gone and who is going to pick that up? There is a very real chance it goes back to an eroded set of trails that struggle to be maintained. The same goes for the biking scene. Where is this 20-40 year old demographic that's going to take any of this over? It's a rhetorical question to me.
3. To the point above, we have not seen this 20-40 demographic that you talk about. Like none, zero. Once in a blue moon we get someone in that age group and they disappear in a week.
4. I don't really know what sort of solution one might offer for the Norm/Patrick problem. We're never going to say, "Hey person X, you can't post that much." So it begs the question, who isn't posting? I think Patrick is trying to fill a gap to create content which is going to come from what he knows. So it'll be highly personal. That's natural and begs the question of the new demographic coming in to help that doesn't really exist.
5. I generally dislike the ban option. In the past when I banned someone it was openly stated, and there was a timeline. More often than not they would come back and be fine. I am not aware of non-bots/spammers being blocked. On this note, I actually dislike the ignore user/thread button as it really means that people will not see the content there. That said, I have ignored threads for the reasons you mention. I simply do not care about cars yet it is the most popular thread here, with maybe the exception of beer, which I also ignore. The fact that Cars & Beer were at the top of the list every day for YEARS is what made me a little sad and start to detach. No matter what I do, BEER IS MORE IMPORTANT. I digress. I am joining your rowboat, TBH.
6. I miss Norm's MTBNJ but I also consider that Team MTBNJ's MTBNJ - it feels like the days are past. This is true of both the team and the site. Why is that? IDK. We have a similar disconnect with the team now in that we do not have a central focus to drive us like we used to in the past (races, events, etc).
7. I believe the Hartshorne issue has been resolved, FTR.

I am open to whoever else wants to add feedback. I would love to have more weekly content posts from myself or others. I would love to do a podcast but I cannot drive that. I'd be more than happy to talk on a zoom call for 30 minutes and record it. But who has time for that?

I also wish the content was more-better-biglier. I struggle with this from time to time. But I also know I would need to just add more Norm to the mix and I struggle to commit to that.

I like turtles.
I love lamp.

Please anyone else add feedback. I won't ban you. Unless I don't like you. Then I will.

Just kidding. Maybe.
 
after reading this the only thing i can add (at least in such a short response time) is this (apparently iv been a member since 08, who knew):


I feel that the like button showing up cut down on a lot of posts, people 'react' to the post and then neglect (or forget maybe?) to add to the discussion, now i can certainly see how this could be double edged sword as more posting does not mean more quality content, and crap (shit?) posts are just more to wade through to get to the good stuff.
 
I feel that the like button showing up cut down on a lot of posts, people 'react' to the post and then neglect (or forget maybe?) to add to the discussion, now i can certainly see how this could be double edged sword as more posting does not mean more quality content, and crap (shit?) posts are just more to wade through to get to the good stuff.

Interesting point. Yes it is a thing, and we are following a (maybe wrong) trend where all the socials have this feature.

Also keep in mind that in 2013, everyone was reading on a computer and now most read on their phones. This gives me an idea.
 
36 year-old checking in. Young kid, advancing career, spending time with my wife, and other hobbies - all take up huge amounts of time. I can't ride frequently, and when I do it's usually a "I have a quick 2 hours and I gotta go now" ride so I don't make a blip on the MTB social radar. But I can check in on a forum fairly regularly - if there's the potential for something interesting enough to get me to check.

Been here a little less than 2 years. The way I access the forum is as a Forum of People Who Like [Mostly Off-road] Cycling, not necessarily as an Off-road Cycling Forum. We all have other hobbies and interests - biking doesnt need to be the only thing we can connect on. Maybe telling us to get off your biking lawn is scaring all the 20-40s away.

In real life I've often found that my Brewing Friends only wanted to talk about beer, or only wanted to get together to brew. Biking Friends only wanted to ride together. I, for one, appreciate the variety of content here as a social outlet with more than one dimension.

Just one 20-40's perspective
 
3. To the point above, we have not seen this 20-40 demographic that you talk about. Like none, zero. Once in a blue moon we get someone in that age group and they disappear in a week.

Hello.

2. The succession plan is a problem everywhere. As a pretty active JORBA rep, we have this conversation all the time. Kirt and I are dumping a lot of time & effort into CR/Cromwell. We both know that in 5 years we may both be gone and who is going to pick that up? There is a very real chance it goes back to an eroded set of trails that struggle to be maintained. The same goes for the biking scene. Where is this 20-40 year old demographic that's going to take any of this over? It's a rhetorical question to me.

This is pretty amusing. I poked the bear both in the Essex county legalization efforts and possibly getting involved at Stephens instead as it's one of my most frequent haunts and I basically got 2 replies and then crickets from the powers at be.

If I'm not wanted, I'm just going to stop trying to contribute to the JORBA-verse trails and focus on my not so legitimate trails. I'm not going to chase people to do volunteer work ffs.

6. I miss Norm's MTBNJ but I also consider that Team MTBNJ's MTBNJ - it feels like the days are past. This is true of both the team and the site. Why is that? IDK. We have a similar disconnect with the team now in that we do not have a central focus to drive us like we used to in the past (races, events, etc).

Also interesting as someone getting into XC...what are the actual requirements for being on the team. It doesn't seem like you guys add members too frequently, nor does much of the team actually race it feels. Not asking to join, just curious how that happens and why it's kind of a veiled secrecy.

It does feel like at times this is a MTBNJ team forum more than a NJ MTB forum, fwiw.
 
just to keep


<sigh> I won’t change the topic here, but there are many here with Essex county scars on this board. Most of them like to poke at the wound than help heal it.

Yeah, I appreciated the effort you brought a few years back...that first zoom call had what 20-30 guys on it?. That's amazing. It's a losing battle for now, Joe D isn't getting younger....I think....

I'm way, way, way more salty about Stephens.
 
I guess I need more of an explanation on this. But when you explain it, can you do so from the street and not stand on my lawn?

K, thanks.

*Standing a respectful 12 or so inches from your curb*

That was aimed more Johnny Utah's original allegation that the site isn't strictly cycling- and Team MTBNJ-centric any more.

The way 20-40s interact with the internet is fundamentally different than other age groups. We grew up Online in a way no one else did. Online is a universe to us, that contains multitudes. If we're getting told we can't discuss other interests in the forum - then you can't be sad when we're not on the forum. And if we're not on the forum, we're not going to show up to your trail maintenance days or group rides. Or take ownership of MTBNJ or JORBA.


I, for one, welcome our new multifaceted overlords.
1000001986.jpg
 
FWIW I welcome the non-cycling content. Hell, just look at the Car Spotting thread. One of the most prolific in terms of activity. It underscores that we all have other pursuits than cycling but the common bond that is cycling facilitates a community in which we can share ideas, ask for advice, and laugh a little. That common cycling bond creates a sense of (virtual) familiarity with one another that facilitates the exchange of ideas and opinions. Much like the real-world friend-circles we each have.

Speaking of advice 🙋 , does anyone have a recommendation for a 25’ 5/8 garden hose that doesn’t kink, leak or attract mold? Serious question.
 
I think MTBNJ has evolved over the years. While some scratches and bruises it overall has been positive.

If the concern here is too much policing than maybe a blog on why it is the way it is… some past years posts get loco and need root level access to take control…
 
possibly getting involved at Stephens

Stephens has been a train wreck from a JORBA perspective. There's no other way to say it. The level of politics with all the Mooch stuff just makes me want to not be involved with this stuff. I wish I had a better answer for you but that's more or less the summary of it. I believe that right now there may not be a SSP rep. I actually do not know. There may or may not be a JORBA rep for any of the Mooch parks - I honestly do not know. As a reminder, I am on the JORBA Board of Directors. We are "emerging" as the expression goes. I suppose one could also say there are opportunities for improvement.

I can control what we do at RV/CR/Cromwell and specific-MTBNJ events, to some extent. I cannot build a suspension bridge anywhere. But I can go do TM at any of the parks and still be above the board...mostly. Everything is complicated and the whole keys-to-the-castle eludes even me, the Hamburgler. If you want to get involved in CR/RV, please let me know. I know a guy.

As for the team - people who are interested need to ask. We are not currently recruiting, necessarily. But we are not closed or anything like that. If you want to get involved, again, let me know. I know another guy.

I do find it interesting that you see it as a team board. I feel like most of the team barely posts on the public form anymore (often times myself included).
 
If we're getting told we can't discuss other interests in the forum - then you can't be sad when we're not on the forum. And if we're not on the forum, we're not going to show up to your trail maintenance days or group rides. Or take ownership of MTBNJ or JORBA.

I generally DGAF what people talk about online. I have been mostly tolerant on most/all issues. I am often reminded that NICA parents/kids frequent the board, so when it gets especially nasty (example, in the past when someone made an insinuation they ride with a firearm) I need to shut that down. I would say 98% of the locked threads here are from Patrick. I don't necessarily have an issue with it. But as a rule, I never used to lock For Sale threads because who cares? You want to post antics on a sold item, go nuts.
 
Back
Top Bottom