The Tourne Gets Sanitized

ytc100

New Member
Good post Ryan.
I rode the new trail and saw that work had been started and the re-route had been flagged. I didn't have time to stop and really check things out yet but I'm looking forward to seeing how things turn out. Believe me I appreciate the work that's being done and I will make a TM in the near future.

I think in the Tourne's case a lot of this comes down to having too little park for too many people.
 

Kirt

JORBA: Chimney Rock, Team MTBNJ.COM
JORBA.ORG
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Keep up the great work Ryan, it seems like you are on the right path.
 
T

triameleon

Guest
sad to see them go...

Sad to see them go, but I am amazed they lasted this long. The tourne and it's asscoiated "logstacles" improved my riding dramatically and opened my eyes to the different styles of riding out there. I fiugred it was only a matter of time before the increased attention lead to the removal of the logs at the tourne. A tip of the helmet to the builders, whom ever they may be, they WERE well constructed(when not sabatoged by the trail nazi) and have lasted there for years. Fortunately personal responsablity is the rule of the day out here on the public lands I enjoy the privelege of riding. surely though Parks and Wreck couldn't have foudn them all
 

hardtale70

She's Gone From Suck to Blow
Shop Keep
Super late to the party

For FU#KS sake!! Do i drive my unlicensed field truck up to Stokes and then whip out the chainsaw and just start cutting firewood in the middle of the picnic area?? Does that seem ridiculous to ya?? Any stunts fall into the same realm(barring buildups over deadfall,until they get cut)I don't know the Tourne area specifics but as for DP and KVSP , well it's bad. In comparison to other years I'd say rogue trails are an epidemic up here.I know Rocky's pissed about KVSP and I reported the newest trail immediatley.I told them I'd so much as lay out there overnite just to catch the moron.I left my # and no-one's called so whatever.As far as I'm concerned, if I see someone w/ so much as rose clippers in their hand while I'm out riding my area parks they're going to jail or I'm going to the morgue.And if you're reading this you stupid f#$k I'm close behind ya so don't slip up.......................
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I can't believe you don't drink any caffeine whatsoever. Just completely incomprehensible.
 

icebiker

JORBA: Morris Trails
JORBA.ORG
Some perspective from someone close to the sitch...

Having worked with the Morris County Park Commission for over 10 years on trail access issues and trail building initiatives, and as JORBA's Morris County rep, I agree with the points of view by Mergs, Bob W, and several others. They are spot-on, so I will not belabor the points they so eloquently have stated. I also have to disagree with the statements made regarding the Park Commission and the lack of progress we have supposedly made with them, and invite those of you who would like to discuss in a more effective forum (such as over the phone, or over a ride, or even a post-ride beer) to PM me and we'll get in touch. I can provide MUCH more perspective verbally than I have the time to detail in a web post.

I would like, however, to provide some perspective specific to the Tourne and Morris County in general. First some background: The MCPC's objective when it comes to trails is to achieve a state in which they are sustainable (meaning they require little to no ongoing maintenance), applying methods as defined by IMBA. Officially sanctioned trail work is done under a partnership arrangement with the MCPC and Morris Trails Partnership, using 100% volunteers (most of which I might add are MTB'ers). This work requires a formal trails plan for the park, which are in place for Lew Mo and Pyramid - hence the monthly trail construction and maintenance program we have in place for these parks. Similar efforts are foreseen at Tourne, Mahlon, and Schooleys once resourcing issues are resolved and a formal trails plan can be developed, approved and implemented. These take time, so in the meantime some minor trail remediation is being accomplished through MCPC's Adopt-a-trail program, which is the auspices under which the recently enlisted and hard-working Tourne MTB volunteers have been working. It is also hoped that by getting volunteers involved at these parks now, it will make it easier to begin any major trail work under the formal trails plans at these parks given that volunteer momentum would have been established. We are starting to see this in Mahlon, as well, with a new core group of dedicated MTB volunteers that have signed up to AAT.

Now, on to the Tourne. The problems there are:
a) The unsanctioned trails are unsustainable. The trails go straight down the fall line and if left as is will develop into a complete mess, both environmentally and from a safety aspect. Unfortunately, and despite rumors to the contrary, there are no magic trail building elves in our woods to maintain them (Maybe Allamuchy eh Bob? ;) but not Morris), nor is there a big ol' pot of gold at trail's end to fund our efforts or supplement the already sparse county budgets. Yes, there are unsustainable trails at all parks, including those with a trails plan, but as mentioned above, the current and future efforts will remediate these. But Rome wasn't built in a day. It's going to take time and patience. A lot of it. Creating new problem trails just makes the task that much more daunting, and delays our ability to build the good stuff.

b) the log/rock features pose a liability risk and also widen (or create new) trails. Someone asked if there were any documented lawsuits in regarding trails. Indeed there are. In fact, among the most infamous was brought by a mountain biker who fell on “uneven terrain” :confused: in Lewis Morris in 2000. While the judge eventually threw out the suit, it required close to a year or more of effort on the part of MCPC to defend itself, costing a bundle of time, energy and money. This was featured in Bike Magazine, the local NJ papers, and references to it can be found in this article by IMBA, which documents many other incidents:

http://www.imba.com/resources/trail_issues/you_play_you_pay.html

c)The trails and stunts are not authorized. Yeah, you could argue the “tree fell in the woods so I rode it”, but anything that takes you off the established and sanctioned trails is not authorized. More importantly, especially with things can only be attributed to MTB'ers – such as log ramps and transitions - this type of activity has the potential to undo all the success we have had in overcoming the unwarranted and inaccurate image we used to have as Mountain Dew-swilling, mud-puddle blasting, animal-scaring yahoos. Thanks to our collective efforts in Morris and across NJ, we are now seen by even the die-hard skeptics in counties like Essex (where the infamous South Mountain is located) as being responsible, engaged, civic-minded and environmentally conscious partners at the table advocating for more and better trails.

d) Tourne is a small park, in a crowded urban area, with heavy trail use, which shares a border with a town (Mountain Lakes) that does not allow biking. It is not suited to an extensive network of trails
in the way that Mahlon – and to a lesser extent Lew Mo – is. Ever notice that on most MCPC literature (e.g. Brochures, maps, etc) Tourne is not designated as a MTB park? While it is legal to ride there (at least in the MCPC-governed areas), it is not MCPC's intention to promote it as a “destination” park for this activity for all the reasons above. Some of you may remember that Tourne was temporarily subjected in 1998 to a complete ban on MTB'ing, until the local population got involved, JORBA called in the IMBA Trail Care Crew and a dialog ensued. I can tell you that if the unsanctioned trail/stunt situation continues at the Tourne, it has the potential to take us back to 1998 all over again. This is not a threat, mind you, it is just THAT sensitive of a situation. I think you'd agree it is better to work with what we have and be a part of a solution, than to let it ride (no pun intended) and lose it all.

So, my recommendation is to get involved! Join us for a trail date or two, get to meet the people who are getting things done, find a way to get your voices heard constructively through this network of contacts. Spread the word among local Tourne users. Be an advocate. You will find that, contrary to the opinions expressed by some on this forum, the MCPC is an excellent group of people to work with. Even in the early 90's when counties were struggling with how to address this then new-fangled sport, Morris didn't give in like some other counties, which banned MTBing and forced its riding citizens to use Morris' trails and those of other counties. Rather, they reached out to us, engaged us, listened to us. Sure, there have been missteps from time to time, but the relationship has gotten stronger every year. Case in point: the two gents you all came across (referenced in one of the above posts) were once ARDENT anti-bike folks, die-hard hikers. They are now two of our strongest advocates. Both of them have even joined us at meetings with South Mountain to show how they – as hikers – stand side-by-side with mountain bikers in advocating shared use trails and validating how both user groups can get along.

Once again, I invite those that are concerned about the recent developments in the Tourne to get in touch with me by PM if you want to discuss further. There will be a trails plan for Tourne. Your input will be heard. You just have to be willing to get constructively involved.

Thanks for listening. Now go ride!

Greg Murray
 

Glancing Aft

Active Member
Is there anyone on this board who was involved with Highbridge Park in the city at all? To be honest I have yet to make it to the park but I have heard such positive things. I just feel that if the logistics could be circumnavigated in NYC to allow the free ride aspects of mountain biking into a public park, then it should be a walk in the park here.
 

ytc100

New Member
<snip>
Once again, I invite those that are concerned about the recent developments in the Tourne to get in touch with me by PM if you want to discuss further. There will be a trails plan for Tourne. Your input will be heard. You just have to be willing to get constructively involved.

Thanks for listening. Now go ride!

Greg Murray

Thanks for the informative reply. I am admitting that I didn't realize the stuff in the Tourne was all rogue and was such a big deal when it comes to planning the future of these parks and our ability to ride them. The stuff was always there as far as i knew and being a new rider I thought that's the way it was. I am not defending the builders of unapproved obstacles or trails. I find it surprising that even after riding for 7 years I had no idea how strict the usage guidelines for our parks is. I also have to apologize for saying that from the outside it appears that MCPS has not done much for our trails here - it sounds like a lot of the behind the scenes stuff is making a difference for the future. If I was more involved I'm sure I would have understood this better. What concerns me is all of the riders who aren't involved (such as myself) having little information about these issues. Thanks for the education.
 
Thanks for the informative reply. I am admitting that I didn't realize the stuff in the Tourne was all rogue and was such a big deal when it comes to planning the future of these parks and our ability to ride them. The stuff was always there as far as i knew and being a new rider I thought that's the way it was. I am not defending the builders of unapproved obstacles or trails. I find it surprising that even after riding for 7 years I had no idea how strict the usage guidelines for our parks is. I also have to apologize for saying that from the outside it appears that MCPS has not done much for our trails here - it sounds like a lot of the behind the scenes stuff is making a difference for the future. If I was more involved I'm sure I would have understood this better. What concerns me is all of the riders who aren't involved (such as myself) having little information about these issues. Thanks for the education.

Thanks for admitting that. I used to be ignorant of access and maintenance issues as well, until I began to do volunteer work in my county, and got into organizing events for the kids in my town. A little education goes a long way.

I think it is great to be a hands-on TM and outreach volunteer, but some of us do not have that kind of time available to us, myself included.

Scott, I know you wish to become more involved, so my suggestion to you would be to become an example to your fellow riders, and educate wherever and whenever you see an opportunity to share the knowledge you now have. Not all MTB activism has to have a formality to it :)
 

Shaggz

A strong 7
Is there anyone on this board who was involved with Highbridge Park in the city at all? To be honest I have yet to make it to the park but I have heard such positive things. I just feel that if the logistics could be circumnavigated in NYC to allow the free ride aspects of mountain biking into a public park, then it should be a walk in the park here.

jbogner
 

icebiker

JORBA: Morris Trails
JORBA.ORG
Is there anyone on this board who was involved with Highbridge Park in the city at all? To be honest I have yet to make it to the park but I have heard such positive things. I just feel that if the logistics could be circumnavigated in NYC to allow the free ride aspects of mountain biking into a public park, then it should be a walk in the park here.

Speaking of freeride, one of the ideas under consideration by the MCPC - believe it or not - is to use a part of the abandoned Snow Bowl ski area (east of Mahlon) to create similar facilities. This idea is at least 2 years old by now, which shows you that the MCPC is progressive and considering the emerging aspects of trail use, liability considerations notwithstanding. Some of us are also recommending a pump-track, near where the current RC-car loop is set up. So, when the time comes to begin work there (timing not yet known, as described in my post above), let's be sure we all chip in with input and sweat equity!
 

Bob W

JORBA: Allamuchy
JORBA.ORG
I think it is great to be a hands-on TM and outreach volunteer, but some of us do not have that kind of time available to us, myself included.

Scott, I know you wish to become more involved, so my suggestion to you would be to become an example to your fellow riders, and educate wherever and whenever you see an opportunity to share the knowledge you now have. Not all MTB activism has to have a formality to it :)

JGR - the funny thing about time is that no one has enough free time. Years ago I made a decision to get involved. Its like anything else, you have to make it a priority, if it is important to you (not you specifically) you wil find time.

BTW everyone has enought time to come out at least one day a year if not more. :)

Bob W.
 
JGR - the funny thing about time is that no one has enough free time. Years ago I made a decision to get involved. Its like anything else, you have to make it a priority, if it is important to you (not you specifically) you wil find time.

BTW everyone has enought time to come out at least one day a year if not more. :)

Bob W.

You are absolutely correct on that note, even one day a year can be done by most everyone. But you can be an ambassador every day, on every ride, even when you cannot actively build, clean or maintain trails.
 

jbogner

NYCMTB: President
JORBA.ORG
Is there anyone on this board who was involved with Highbridge Park in the city at all?

Yes. A few things about liability- NYC Parks has a large legal department that defends them from lawsuits all the time. Bike trails are a small blip on their overall liability radar, so we're in a different situation from some suburban parks whose threshold for liability is lower. Also helping us was the Commissioner's new focus on incorporating more "extreme" sports into NYC Parks. He's opened a ropes course, surfing-only beaches, skateparks, and now mountain bike trails. Good vision at the top of NYC Parks. Speaking of skateparks, they were an eye-opener for the risk managers at Parks, and we can thank them for opening the door for us- there's nothing on our freeride trail that is more dangerous than a skatepark.

As far as stunts go, everything we've built has been constructed with naturally occuring rock and dirt. No dimensional lumber, no nails or screws. We do not want the added liability burden of having to inventory and check conditions on built wooden stunts. One board out of place, and you can get sued for negligence. Courts have traditional not sided with plaintiffs who argue about natural materials moving around on trails, so we've kept it all natural. It's amazing what you can do with purely natural materials, though- big drops, sweet berms, rocky steeps, etc.

Greg- as far as overall management strategy goes, we argued initially (and have proven so far) that incorporating a legal freeride trail would cut down on illegal trail building in other city parks, and protect those other sensitive ecosystems from rogue trailbuilding. Our experience over the past 6 months has definitely shown that to be true- nearly all of the guys who were building illegally in NYC parks now volunteer regularly at Highbridge, and they don't waste their time building their own stuff, because Highbridge is better, bigger, and perfectly legal.

Sounds like the MCPC is on the right track with the Snow Bowl concept. That would be a great place to develop a dedicated freeride/technical trail system, while taking the heat off some of the multi-user parks...
 

hardtale70

She's Gone From Suck to Blow
Shop Keep
JGR - the funny thing about time is that no one has enough free time. Years ago I made a decision to get involved. Its like anything else, you have to make it a priority, if it is important to you (not you specifically) you wil find time.

BTW everyone has enought time to come out at least one day a year if not more. :)

Bob W.

Speak for yourself man, I've got nothing but free time. When we gonna do some cutting??
 

hardtale70

She's Gone From Suck to Blow
Shop Keep
Cutting deadfall and storm damage to keep the trails nice........................gosh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 
T

triameleon

Guest
Freeride at snowball? with diablo right up the road a little more. Maybe it's been two years in the works because they are just blowing smoke. soon the tourne will be as boring as LM. Tech riders will have to go elsewhere.
 
Top Bottom