rick81721
Lothar
Don't know if I buy this theory. The mRNA "shuts off" but the covid spike protein remains expressed on the exterior of the muscle cell until the cell dies.
This Thread Blows - C19 and beyond
- Thread starter Paul H
- Start date
Don't know if I buy this theory. The mRNA "shuts off" but the covid spike protein remains expressed on the exterior of the muscle cell until the cell dies.
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
This absolutely 100% NOT how the immune response works. You're doc friend needs to go back and study immunology 101.
Okay then, please explain why reaction to the COVID vaccines are more discrete than traditional delivery mechanisms.
+1 for Monkey Soup creating a YouTube channel to explain the world to all us retards.
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
What do you mean by "discrete"? The short version is that immunity is mediated by a combination of the cell and humoral immune system. In some people it tilts more one way than the other. When an antigen is reintroduced (the second dose), some people have a strong innate response before the adaptive immune system (i.e. your memory T-Cell and B-Cells) kicks in. Subcutaneous introduction is different than inhalation, so responses are different. During this early induced innate response (between 4-96hrs) macrophages are secreting both Il-6 and TNF-alpha which cause inflammation and fever (the shit you feel after the second dose that you all complain about). There is more going on with cytokine secretion and cascades after activation of memory T-Cells to effector T-cells, but I think you get the point (or not). All those people you know who say they got the flu from the vaccine? Same thing as what's happening after the second COVID dose.
Teaching is hard, I ain't doing that unless I is gettin paid.
rick81721
Lothar
Here is a good summary on this issue:
"Can antibody tests determine if the COVID-19 vaccine was effective?
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) discourages antibody testing for assessing immunity after getting the vaccine.
A vaccinated person is very likely to get a negative result from a serology test, even if the vaccine was successful and protective. That’s because different serology tests detect antibodies to different parts of the virus.
Some tests detect antibodies to the spike protein of the virus, which are produced in response to viral infection or the vaccine. Others detect antibodies to a different part of the virus called the nucleocapsid protein, which are produced in response to infection, but not by the current vaccines.
MD Anderson’s Blood Bank uses an antibody test designed to detect antibodies to the nucleocapsid protein, which means donors who have received the COVID-19 vaccine will likely receive a negative antibody test result."
https://www.mdanderson.org/cancerwi...n-after-a-covid-19-vaccine.h00-159459267.html
serviceguy
Well-Known Member
I am curious about how the effectiveness of the vaccine is tested then? Is there any indication of why that 5% (or whatever the complementary number to the effectiveness of each vaccine is) ends up not being effective? Just if you have that info handy to offer, I'm not going back and read the hundreds of pages of this thread I purposely skipped.
serviceguy
Well-Known Member
Also, funny but not really...my mom got the first dose of the Pfizer today, took her 1 1/2 hour or an italian line (*) to get it. She asked the nurse if that was a covid-19 vaccine distribution facility or a Covid-19 virus distribution facility (see below).
(*) a large number of people standing randomly in a medium to small public area in a shoulder to shoulder configuration in order to access a service, with a considerably large number of said individuals (called 'stronzi', plural for 'stronzo') trying to take over the next person's spot while casually talking to him/her about a casual subject such as 'I volunteer at the local xxxxxx' (replace xxxxxx with hospital, hospice, etc. depending on the service being erogated, it must imply a certain level of irony though). Once the spot take over has been successfully completed, then the next spot is attacked after a short pause (usually to generically complain about other stronzi). The process ends after being yelled at by the person whose spot is being taken over (usually another stronzo) or receiving the coveted service.
Picture of said stronzo facial expression while being caught expressing itself...
(*) a large number of people standing randomly in a medium to small public area in a shoulder to shoulder configuration in order to access a service, with a considerably large number of said individuals (called 'stronzi', plural for 'stronzo') trying to take over the next person's spot while casually talking to him/her about a casual subject such as 'I volunteer at the local xxxxxx' (replace xxxxxx with hospital, hospice, etc. depending on the service being erogated, it must imply a certain level of irony though). Once the spot take over has been successfully completed, then the next spot is attacked after a short pause (usually to generically complain about other stronzi). The process ends after being yelled at by the person whose spot is being taken over (usually another stronzo) or receiving the coveted service.
Picture of said stronzo facial expression while being caught expressing itself...
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Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
Because no vaccine is 100%, and none will ever be. Everyone's immune response is also not exactly the same either. The immune response to a virus is very specific, and even more so from virus to virus. A percentage of the population have genetic polymorphisms, some of these are in the genes that code for immune proteins, chemokines, etc., that all have an effect on immunity.
Okay, thanks for the sciencey explainer.
My poorly phrased question was meant to be:
It seems that there are differences in the post-vax symptoms between the current mRNA delivery system,
as compared with the post-vaccine symptoms people report for traditional vaccine types.
Specifically, with the COVID vax, it seems that symptoms can be acute, but pass quickly,
and drop off dramatically when they do, especially when compared with traditional vaxes which take the longer course of a typical cold.
Are there actual differences in the symptom experience between the two?
thegock
Well-Known Member
Post #3945 page 198 April 29, 2020
“So what's your overall point in this back-and-forth? Are you trying to claim that Florida is getting worse when every metric shows improvement? …Enlighten me.”
It has been one year, so we can update the reason we take anything @SLIKRICK says with a grain or two of salt.
At that point, April 29, 2020, Florida’s 7DMA was 41 dead bodies and a total of 1,218 dead bodies.
worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida
The total Florida dead of C19 on May 2, 2021, just over a year later, was 35,269, which is one metric. The 7DMA on May 5, 2021 was 64, far below the July and January peaks of 184 and 185. That's another metric.
Breathless (get it?) late update: Florida's 7DMA of new cases is 40% higher than the national average.
http://worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida
“So what's your overall point in this back-and-forth? Are you trying to claim that Florida is getting worse when every metric shows improvement? …Enlighten me.”
It has been one year, so we can update the reason we take anything @SLIKRICK says with a grain or two of salt.
At that point, April 29, 2020, Florida’s 7DMA was 41 dead bodies and a total of 1,218 dead bodies.
worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida
The total Florida dead of C19 on May 2, 2021, just over a year later, was 35,269, which is one metric. The 7DMA on May 5, 2021 was 64, far below the July and January peaks of 184 and 185. That's another metric.
Breathless (get it?) late update: Florida's 7DMA of new cases is 40% higher than the national average.
http://worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida
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Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
The immune response is not one size fits all, and differs depending on the antigen that is being presented. A viral antigen vs. a bacterial antigen for example is going to trigger a different cascade of cells and chemokines to reach the endpoint of effector cell activation and memory. There will therefore be differences in side effect symptoms upon initial injection and booster depending on the vaccine and what it’s for. Add to that person to person variability. For example, I experienced no side effects from the vaccine while others did.
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
I’m dropping science like Galileo dropped an orange.
JDurk
Well-Known Member
RIP MCA
rick81721
Lothar
old man @thegock and Pat, two silly peas in a pod. In case you guys haven't noticed, I stopped posting these morbid FL vs NJ "competition" posts months ago. I foolishly respond to the ones you guys continue to perpetuate here.
Just to respond to the most egregiously silly points above:
NJ has by far "won" the ignominious title as the top covid death state (per population) in the US. In fact, if NJ was a country, it would be the second worst country in the world, only behind Hungary.
FL new cases are 40% higher than the national average? Well FL's population is 325% higher than the national average - do the math!
Anywho, if you guys want to continue to make asses out of yourselves, have at it. This is my last response to these NJ vs FL posts - adios.
and PS... adios masks!
So, I just checked this, and it's accurate. Pathetic AF, but accurate. We suck out loud.
The reality is that NJ rates are falling hard right now because pretty much everyone is vaccinated or exposed. Herd of turd immunity attained!
and still wearing masks. As opposed to Florida.
What is the point of that statement?