The Absurd Speculation and Wild Ass Guessing Coronavirus Thread

rick81721

Lothar
The big question is why he would so vigorously dismiss/avoid/quash the lab leak or engineered possibility. And the fact social media would rapidly delete any discussion of that as "disinformation". I wanted to link the WSJ article as they seem reasonably fair but it's paywall. So I used a non-US source to try and weed some of the nonsense. Plus links to relevant stuffs.

Fauci likely dismissed it due to some funding of that lab by NIH (which he foolishly tried to deny). Social media i.e. fake news pushed anything anti-Trump. Sadly, unless some whistleblower from inside the lab defects to the U,S, ccp will continue to hide the truth from the world.
 

serviceguy

Well-Known Member
my opinion (probably wrong) is that he probably thought concentrating on that was of little value. We had much more pressing needs to worry about. Blaming China wouldn’t accomplish anything and just have people focusing on that rather than realizing we were in the midst of a crazy ass pandemic.
I'm sure Fauci and the CCP are with you on this one.
 

rick81721

Lothar
my opinion (probably wrong) is that he probably thought concentrating on that was of little value. We had much more pressing needs to worry about. Blaming China wouldn’t accomplish anything and just have people focusing on that rather than realizing we were in the midst of a crazy ass pandemic.

It doesn't matter now either, other than scientific knowledge of the origins of this pandemic. I'm all for a $100 trillion lawsuit against ccp but it's never going to happen and they will never take any responsibility.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
The CCP? I’m all for investigating now. The truth should be known. I just don’t think it would have made a difference a year ago.

Chinese Communist Party.

The whole effort is pointless IMO. You have 2 options:

1. It was made in a lab. If so, anyone who could or would blow the whistle is dead.
2. It was not. Nothing to see here.

Note that 7 billion people remember that 32 years ago the Tiananmen Square Massacre took place. The other billion live in China where the communist party has managed to eradicate that history from the books. If there is any hint of a whisper that this leaked from a lab the people involved are likely long dead.
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I think you guys are underestimating this. This topic will become super politicized and then polarized. Fauci will be the target of the GOP for the next year over this.

The USA is always at war at some level with China. This is just fuel for the fire.
 

serviceguy

Well-Known Member
Chinese Communist Party.

The whole effort is pointless IMO. You have 2 options:

1. It was made in a lab. If so, anyone who could or would blow the whistle is dead.
2. It was not. Nothing to see here.

Note that 7 billion people remember that 32 years ago the Tiananmen Square Massacre took place. The other billion live in China where the communist party has managed to eradicate that history from the books. If there is any hint of a whisper that this leaked from a lab the people involved are likely long dead.

All true, but at some point someone must complain about al the s**t that the CCP are getting away with. I'm counting on LeBron to speak up soon...not.

With the excuse of 'there's more important things to do now, let's move along' everything gets swiped under the proverbial rag...while there's already another bird-flu virus around that according to WHO scientists 'is mostly unlikely' to pass onto humans...until it isn't anymore. I learned to frown whenever the word 'mostly' is used before any adjective these days...

My biggest gripe is how easy is for everyone to pick and choose the bit of information that will just forward their agenda (or point of view), because everything and everything else is out there. And we're all doing this to various extent.

What's everyone's favorite Chinese food place? The one by exit 105 on Hope rd used to be the best until they changed owners.
Veggie Heaven in Montclair. Was. The last few time we were a little disappointed, we'll try it again though because we were very fond of it.
 

mfennell

Well-Known Member
It's my Birthday!
What's everyone's favorite Chinese food place? The one by exit 105 on Hope rd used to be the best until they changed owners.
That one is still my favorite, probably for nostalgic reasons. I used to go every Monday. Now once every 3 months or so.
 

thegock

Well-Known Member
Here's the WSJ article:


May 24, 2021

"DANAOSHAN, China—On the outskirts of a village deep in the mountains of southwest China, a lone surveillance camera peers down toward a disused copper mine smothered in dense bamboo. As night approaches, bats swoop overhead.

This is the subterranean home of the closest known virus on Earth to the one that causes Covid-19. It is also now a touchpoint for escalating calls for a more thorough probe into whether the pandemic could have stemmed from a Chinese laboratory.

In April 2012, six miners here fell sick with a mysterious illness after entering the mine to clear bat guano. Three of them died.

Chinese scientists from the Wuhan Institute of Virology were called in to investigate and, after taking samples from bats in the mine, identified several new coronaviruses.

Now, unanswered questions about the miners’ illness, the viruses found at the site and the research done with them have elevated into the mainstream an idea once dismissed as a conspiracy theory: that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, might have leaked from a lab in Wuhan, the city where the first cases were found in December 2019.

The lab researchers thus far haven’t provided full and prompt answers, and there have been discrepancies in some information they have released. That has led to demands by leading scientists for a deeper investigation into the Wuhan institute and whether the pandemic virus could have been in its labs and escaped.

Even some senior public-health officials who consider that possibility improbable now back the idea of a fuller probe. They say a World Health Organization-led team had insufficient access in Wuhan earlier this year to reach its conclusion that a lab leak was “extremely unlikely.”

Most of those calling for a fuller examination of the lab hypothesis say they aren’t backing it over the main alternative—that the virus spread from animals to humans outside a lab, in the kind of natural spillover that has become more frequent in recent decades. There isn’t yet enough evidence for either idea, they say, nor are the two incompatible. The virus could have been one of natural origin that was brought back to a laboratory in Wuhan—intentionally or accidentally—and escaped.

A growing number, however, including the director-general of the WHO and a prominent U.S. researcher who has worked with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, agree that the WIV needs to provide more information about its work to categorically rule out a lab spill.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday that three WIV researchers became ill enough in November 2019 that they sought local hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report, though officials expressed differing views over the strength of the evidence. White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Monday the information came from a foreign entity, and that the U.S. needed additional information to independently verify it. In January, the State Department had said that several WIV researchers became sick in autumn 2019 “with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illness.”

The Biden administration has recommended to the WHO that it lead a fuller investigation into the possibility of a lab leak, backing a call by WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who has offered to deploy specialists. An investigation should include other laboratories in Wuhan, not just the WIV, and the team conducting it should include laboratory safety experts, according to a U.S. health official. “We should be able to look at biosafety records and interview staff members,” the official said.

The matter is likely to be discussed during a meeting of the WHO’s decision-making body, the World Health Assembly, which started Monday. Diplomatic support for a lab investigation is thin. Few governments are eager to champion a probe that China could easily veto.



Beijing would be sure to resist any such effort and has tightly controlled access to information thus far. It denies that SARS-CoV-2 came from one of its labs or infected any WIV staff, and it wants the WHO to investigate whether the pandemic began outside Chinese borders.

“The U.S. keeps concocting inconsistent claims and clamoring to investigate labs in Wuhan,” China’s foreign ministry said in a written statement. “This fully shows that some people in the U.S. don’t care about facts and truth.” It cited the WHO-led team’s verdict on the implausibility of a lab leak and urged Washington to invite the WHO to investigate early U.S. cases.

China’s National Health Commission and the WIV didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Hidden mine

Chinese authorities have obstructed independent efforts to investigate the mine, setting up a checkpoint nearby where unidentified men stopped several foreign journalists in recent weeks, on one occasion warning there were wild elephants ahead.

A Journal reporter reached the mine by mountain bike but was later detained and questioned for about five hours by police, who deleted a cellphone photograph of the mine. Villagers told the reporter that local officials had warned them not to discuss the mine with outsiders.

There was no sign of nearby villages being evacuated or any recent research activity at the mine. It was so overgrown that its entrance appeared to be inaccessible.

A growing number of virologists, biologists and other leading scientists are calling for a closer examination of the lab hypothesis.

Asked in a May 11 Senate hearing whether he thought the Covid-19 virus might have escaped from a Wuhan lab, Anthony Fauci, President Biden’s chief medical adviser, said, “That possibility certainly exists, and I am totally in favor of a full investigation of whether that could have happened.” Dr. Fauci is director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, or NIAID, which has funded coronavirus research conducted with the WIV. He has said previously that the Covid-19 virus mostly likely evolved and jumped to humans in nature."


I don't think anyone besides my retarded fucked up in the head friend, Quasi, thinks the virus was created in a lab.
 

serviceguy

Well-Known Member
Here's the WSJ article:


May 24, 2021

"DANAOSHAN, China—On the outskirts of a village deep in the mountains of southwest China, a lone surveillance camera peers down toward a disused copper mine smothered in dense bamboo. As night approaches, bats swoop overhead.

This is the subterranean home of the closest known virus on Earth to the one that causes Covid-19. It is also now a touchpoint for escalating calls for a more thorough probe into whether the pandemic could have stemmed from a Chinese laboratory.

In April 2012, six miners here fell sick with a mysterious illness after entering the mine to clear bat guano. Three of them died.

Chinese scientists from the Wuhan Institute of Virology were called in to investigate and, after taking samples from bats in the mine, identified several new coronaviruses.

Now, unanswered questions about the miners’ illness, the viruses found at the site and the research done with them have elevated into the mainstream an idea once dismissed as a conspiracy theory: that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, might have leaked from a lab in Wuhan, the city where the first cases were found in December 2019.

The lab researchers thus far haven’t provided full and prompt answers, and there have been discrepancies in some information they have released. That has led to demands by leading scientists for a deeper investigation into the Wuhan institute and whether the pandemic virus could have been in its labs and escaped.

Even some senior public-health officials who consider that possibility improbable now back the idea of a fuller probe. They say a World Health Organization-led team had insufficient access in Wuhan earlier this year to reach its conclusion that a lab leak was “extremely unlikely.”

Most of those calling for a fuller examination of the lab hypothesis say they aren’t backing it over the main alternative—that the virus spread from animals to humans outside a lab, in the kind of natural spillover that has become more frequent in recent decades. There isn’t yet enough evidence for either idea, they say, nor are the two incompatible. The virus could have been one of natural origin that was brought back to a laboratory in Wuhan—intentionally or accidentally—and escaped.

A growing number, however, including the director-general of the WHO and a prominent U.S. researcher who has worked with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, agree that the WIV needs to provide more information about its work to categorically rule out a lab spill.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday that three WIV researchers became ill enough in November 2019 that they sought local hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report, though officials expressed differing views over the strength of the evidence. White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Monday the information came from a foreign entity, and that the U.S. needed additional information to independently verify it. In January, the State Department had said that several WIV researchers became sick in autumn 2019 “with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illness.”

The Biden administration has recommended to the WHO that it lead a fuller investigation into the possibility of a lab leak, backing a call by WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who has offered to deploy specialists. An investigation should include other laboratories in Wuhan, not just the WIV, and the team conducting it should include laboratory safety experts, according to a U.S. health official. “We should be able to look at biosafety records and interview staff members,” the official said.

The matter is likely to be discussed during a meeting of the WHO’s decision-making body, the World Health Assembly, which started Monday. Diplomatic support for a lab investigation is thin. Few governments are eager to champion a probe that China could easily veto.



Beijing would be sure to resist any such effort and has tightly controlled access to information thus far. It denies that SARS-CoV-2 came from one of its labs or infected any WIV staff, and it wants the WHO to investigate whether the pandemic began outside Chinese borders.

“The U.S. keeps concocting inconsistent claims and clamoring to investigate labs in Wuhan,” China’s foreign ministry said in a written statement. “This fully shows that some people in the U.S. don’t care about facts and truth.” It cited the WHO-led team’s verdict on the implausibility of a lab leak and urged Washington to invite the WHO to investigate early U.S. cases.

China’s National Health Commission and the WIV didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Hidden mine

Chinese authorities have obstructed independent efforts to investigate the mine, setting up a checkpoint nearby where unidentified men stopped several foreign journalists in recent weeks, on one occasion warning there were wild elephants ahead.

A Journal reporter reached the mine by mountain bike but was later detained and questioned for about five hours by police, who deleted a cellphone photograph of the mine. Villagers told the reporter that local officials had warned them not to discuss the mine with outsiders.

There was no sign of nearby villages being evacuated or any recent research activity at the mine. It was so overgrown that its entrance appeared to be inaccessible.

A growing number of virologists, biologists and other leading scientists are calling for a closer examination of the lab hypothesis.

Asked in a May 11 Senate hearing whether he thought the Covid-19 virus might have escaped from a Wuhan lab, Anthony Fauci, President Biden’s chief medical adviser, said, “That possibility certainly exists, and I am totally in favor of a full investigation of whether that could have happened.” Dr. Fauci is director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, or NIAID, which has funded coronavirus research conducted with the WIV. He has said previously that the Covid-19 virus mostly likely evolved and jumped to humans in nature."


I don't think anyone besides my retarded fucked up in the head friend, Quasi, thinks the virus was created in a lab.
And how did you come to that profound conclusion? Apparently in China they call it the Italian virus, so I’m sure it came from Italy. I don’t think there’s proof the real origin of the virus, certainly not from the lab that apparently was destroyed, in the name of transparency off course, so it’s an exercise in futility arguing in favor of either theory (sorry, one is a conspiracy, like everything else it depends who came up with, my bad). I guess the evils of the world learned from the nazi’s experience that keeping meticulous record of your crimes maybe be counterproductive in the long term...at the same time not finding definite evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I was in Florence in December 2019 and January 2020, and while Florence has a huge Chinese community, it was odd to see that 100% of the Chinese at the airport (where I spent at lot of time picking up and dropping family attending my father’s funeral) were wearing a mask, while on television were starting to appear pictures of Wigan residents being locked in their houses. To me, it should be determined what produced the virus in order to avoid future behavior that may repeat the nightmare that these months have been (good luck with that), at the same time should be verified any behavior that led to a pandemic instead of the containment to a local phenomenon. And saying this I have the most sympathy for the Chinese people that paid an initial toll to the disease, a lot less for the CCP that in the best of cases tried to cover up whatever it was and still does. Cheers.
 
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thegock

Well-Known Member
And how did you come to that profound conclusion?

I asked Quasi and he said it was created in the Wuhan lab.

UPDATE: The guy we had dinner with yesterday said that it was his sense that credible scientist were dancing around whether it was more than plausible that a mutation was developed in a lab. So, I guess I wasn't fully informed and should go back to more obsessively following C19.
 
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JerseyPete

Well-Known Member
I went to Paramus Park Mall yesterday and the doors had signs for masks. 90% of the people I saw were wearing them. Individual stores also had signs for mask required.
 
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