So what makes the bike light?

[SpartaBard]

how's it fit brad? put some other pedals on it and test it!

I have some platforms that I will put on, Shaggz is stopping by tomorrow with his pump to get the tires filled. I have always had a hard time getting a good seal with my small hand pump, and did not want to use my CO2.

Maybe tomorrow around my driveway. I currently have a 32/16. I will probably need to pick up another cog or two. Maybe a 19t like Al's SASS.

 

[jdog]

I have some platforms that I will put on, Shaggz is stopping by tomorrow with his pump to get the tires filled. I have always had a hard time getting a good seal with my small hand pump, and did not want to use my CO2.

Maybe tomorrow around my driveway. I currently have a 32/16. I will probably need to pick up another cog or two. Maybe a 19t like Al's SASS.

uh.. You don't have a floor pump??

 

[jdog]

How in the world have you made it this long without a floor pump, please go buy one..

I have an Surely 18t brand new in packaging... If you want it let me know.

I think we are about to have a sale on pumps. Does anyone need one??

 

[walter]

I think we are about to have a sale on pumps. Does anyone need one??

I'm good, thanks for the offer though

 

[walter]

To get things back on topic for a second.

the other difference from the SASS and the KM was the crank length.

SASS 170
KM 175

will the longer length help that much when climbing??? I dont know.

Another note: The SASS was/is better in other situations, smaller bike turned and handled better. And of course the SASS had a front suspension fork so it was much more comfortable.

Longer crank arms will give more leverage, so in theory, it may be easier to climb

 

[ArmyOfNone]

im runnin 170s on my ss and can not wait to get me some 175s!

 

[Norm]

The KM wasn't perfect. I didn't mind the non-suspension fork as much. But it certainly did not handle as well in the tight turns. The whole "big wheels rolling over stuff" was a moot point - we were at Lewis Morris. Really my focus here is climbing. It did great on big sweeping turns. Traction was nice. But smaller turns, with roots, not so good. It seemed to do fine on LM's single rock.

It should also be noted the SASS was a bad fit for me. Saddle too low and cockpit too cramped. So clearly had something to do with it. Oh and the goddamn chain hadn't been lubed in like 6 years.

 

[SpartaBard]

uh.. You don't have a floor pump??

No... I probably should pick one up one of these days.

 

[Norm]

All of these systems share a common inadequacy: none of them takes crank length into account! The fact is that a mountain bike with a 46/16 has the same gear as a road bike with a 53/19 only if they have the same length cranks. If the mountain bike has 175's and the road bike 170's, the gear on the mountain bike is really about 3% lower!

this is from sheldon brown's website... so 3%, that is huge actually.

http://sheldonbrown.com/gain.html

Gear inches is also skewed by the difference in tire size. So the same gear inches on both bikes will result in the 29er going further per revolution. One revolution on the 29er is 91" and the 26er is 81. That 10 inches represents a 12.5% increase in distance gained from the SASS to the KM. Add in the 3% from the crank arm and you may have 2 totally different bikes.

 

[bonefishjake]

so this thread went from light bikes to gearing in 26" v. 29" bikes? huh, imagine that.

in a nut shell, the analogy for lightness is the same as it is for speed: it's just a matter of how much you want to spend. go ti and carbon everything. bottom line. even in the not significant parts. eventually all those grams add up and you'll be sitting on a wicked light bike. will it be the strongest? maybe, maybe not. my guess is not. ti flexes too much, carbon snaps. neither are the friend of a clyde who can't follow the advice of his own sig.

 

[Norm]

in a nut shell, the analogy for lightness is the same as it is for speed: it's just a matter of how much you want to spend. go ti and carbon everything. bottom line. even in the not significant parts. eventually all those grams add up and you'll be sitting on a wicked light bike. will it be the strongest? maybe, maybe not. my guess is not. ti flexes too much, carbon snaps. neither are the friend of a clyde who can't follow the advice of his own sig.

But the point is, the bike we rode wasn't all ti and carbon. It was a heavy steel frame and fork, and still climbed fast. So I'm not sure your bottom line fits this particular experience.

 

[bonefishjake]

norm, it continues to be your year...you're right. BUT, i was staying on topic, not addressing the differences between the KM and SASS. i didn't notice anything extraordinary on the KM (not that i had a long time to look at it but...) other than the chris king headset and purty blue skewers. no carbon seat post, bars, ti-railed seat, etc. so, IMHO, it's one of a couple things that gave that bike (the KM) a "light" feel:

1. the 29" wheels. since they're moving you more distance for the same percieved amount of work, the bike "feels" lighter. the key here is percieved. did you really notice you were pushing those extra ounces of the big wheel? probably not. we don't have to rehash the fact that IN GENERAL 29er wheels weigh more that 26ers.
2. crank length. again, this will fall into the percieved amount of work category. more distance, bla, bla, bla.
3. this one is the biggie: geometry. the weight distribution on the bike (as mentioned earlier) can play a huge role in how light or heavy it "feels". maybe surly hit the nail on the head with the KM...i dunno.

i know the mary is no lightweight at 28.5lbs, but the bike "felt" light. it also felt really nimble, but i pick a good line ( ) and i did smack a tree so what do i know.

so those are my thoughts.

 

[jdog]

My F-29er and the Mary are about four pounds apart yet they both ride "light". So yeah scale weight and trail weight are not equal.

j

 

[bonefishjake]

jay, is your mary close in weight to that? i hung it on the scale at the shop with no add-ons other than the pedals and that was the number.

 

[jdog]

Good Mary

That sounds close. My demo is all stock except for the bars which i switched for low rise bars.

I like the Mary bars but I didn't want the distraction for people trying out SS and 29" for the 1st time.

Someone just taco'ed the front wheel on it this week. I pulled it almost back to straight but the tension is all over the place.

That bike has been ridden a ton. I have had more than 25 people demo it. That is why I have sold so many.

This has been a great test of the durability of the bike.

I have seen only one flat. The tires are holding up great as well as the rest of the bike.

The paint looks a bit rough but no one treats a demo like they treat their own ride.

Long term test A+


j

 

[bonefishjake]

ok, thanks jay. was just curious.

i'll be honest, i didn't think i was going to like the mary bars, but for the SS (and the little time i actually spent with them) i'm sold. i understand why you wouldn't want to confuse the folks though.

anyway, i for one am very happy to hear you praise mary's durability. she's turning out to be a hearty woman! i, unfortunately, had about 15 minutes on her before i taco'd the front rim. i can't really complain, i mean i did hit a tree at about 15 mph then got run over by norm.

i hope i'm at the shop tomorrow and back on the trail this weekend with it. we'll see...i may need a new rim.

 

[J-Dro]

i, unfortunately, had about 15 minutes on her before i taco'd the front rim. i can't really complain, i mean i did hit a tree at about 15 mph then got run over by norm.

So what actually taco'd the rim? Running into the tree? Getting run over by Norm? A combination of the two?

 

[bonefishjake]

tree.

 

[Norm]

So what actually taco'd the rim? Running into the tree? Getting run over by Norm? A combination of the two?

Well I really didn't run him over. My front tire touched his rear end. I mean, don't get me wrong I would have loved to leave tracks across him and keep going. But out of the goodness of my heart, I stopped.

 

[Norm]

didn't you also tell me he really didnt hit the tree too?

Well I guess reality is subjective. But I saw him come down sideways, all aflutter, on a few roots of a tree. I mean technically the root is a part of the tree. So you know, I guess I did see him hit a tree.