So what makes the bike light?

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Rode the Karate Monkey yesterday and the thing climbed like a champ. Now nothing I've read suggests climbing is the strong point of the 29er. I think the bottom line is that the thing was just lighter than any bike I've ever ridden. Given that the frame is like 5.5 and the front shock (rigid) is 2.5, that's 8 pounds right there, which doesn't really seem to qualify as a "light" starting point by today's standards.

So obviously the guy had it built up pretty light, which probably means pretty expensive as well. Now of course you don't pay for the weight of the 2 derailleurs or the gears. So the weight savings come from the hubs, rims, tubes/tires, cranks, handlebars, and....anything else? I can't imagine the seat post & saddle make a huge difference, nor does the stem & headset. Or am I wrong.

Anyway, thoughts?
 

ArmyOfNone

Well-Known Member
Good question...

Made myself ask the question...Is there a huge weight differnce between steel and aluminum frames?

This could be a dumb...really dumb question (feel free to laugh)
 

J-Dro

Well-Known Member
He probably replaced all his other stickers with PUSH stickers. They are the lightest you know.
 

Shaggz

A strong 7
if you bought that KM, does that mean that you and Sean could honk at each other, too? That would be an impressive display of audible flatulence.
 

ArmyOfNone

Well-Known Member
i guess what i mean to say...there is are some advantages to a steel frame. Is the weight difference great enough to lean one way or the other?
 

jdog

Shop: Halter's Cycles
Shop Keep
light

:)
you can shave a lot of weight with Aluminum. pretty standard aluminum hardtail frame is like 3.5lbs....carbon is sub 3lbs and steel is just heavier...they used to make really light weight steel frames, triple butted stuff, but they were expensive and they break.... some very high end companies still make them..

Jdogs fav, Seven makes a Steel hardtail, freaking thing is like 3 g for the frame.


in the early 90's, i think its like $100 to save 1 ounce.

good place to look for parts and how much the weigh is

http://wrenchscience.com/Store.aspx?stylecode=M

they have the weight of every part. good time wasting resource.
I am guessing that the light KM is Gary's?? I have ridden that bike and it is not heavy but not super light.

If you want a light bike you really must consider the weight of every element.

The steel Seven Frame is $1600 in one color. Keep in mind that is for a full custom geometry, custom tube diameters, custom paint, Custom Butting, Braze ons galore and a lifetime warranty. I can't say enough good things about their bikes. If you know what you like, don't like and you have the money you might someday consider a 7.

The Ti frames start at $2400 and IMO they are worth it. (no rust)

I have had every frame material mentioned. I still keep collecting bikes since there is no perfect one.
 

anrothar

entirely thrilled
my km weighs in at a 'big boned' 27.5 lbs. but it rides ALOT lighter than that. it could just be that the bike felt lighter than it really was. unless he quoted you a verified weight(ie: not a guess). the curved st and resultant short chainstay length, combined with the big rollin wheels makes the thing climb like nobody's business.
 

ArmyOfNone

Well-Known Member
i think i have much more to worry about then the weight when it comes to bikes.

Like riding and not sucking
 

ChrisG

Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
the curved st and resultant short chainstay length, combined with the big rollin wheels makes the thing climb like nobody's business.
Bingo!

Some other random thoughts:
-Rolling weight is way more important than the "static" parts. A half pound difference between two sets of tires will feel more significant in "riding weight" than it does in the "pick-up test"
-Saddles are definitely a place where weight can fluctuate a lot
-Weenie parts like bottom brackets, headsets, bolts, skewers ain't gonna be felt when you do the blindfold test, though your wallet will be lighter.
-As the Wise Bearded One suggests above, geometry can play a big role in how "light" or "heavy" a bike feels once you're rolling. Weight distribution can make the bike feel "planted" or "nimble"
-It is really fun to ride a crazy light bike when it's built right. Unfortunately, this does not describe any of my own bikes.
 
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Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
jdog,

It wasn't Gary's, actually. I'm hoping to take his out this weekend. I don't know how his will compare to the one we rode with.

We had a SASS with us, which (to me) didn't climb as well as my regular FS bike. It felt heavy and lethargic, expecially compared to the KM. So I don't really buy the idea that it's a HT versus dualie difference.

The thing most impressive is that it is steel, and it isn't a light frame. Yet overall, a light bike.

To Sean's point, I don't think it was the "big rolling wheels". At one point Heythorpe said something to the effect that I zipped away really fast. There didn't seem to be any inertia holding it from accelerating very fast.

So maybe it was a $2000 bike, or more. But then why would anyone lend that out?
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Bingo!

Some other random thoughts:
-Rolling weight it way more important than the "static" parts. A half pound difference between two sets of tires will feel more significant in "riding weight" than it does in the "pick-up test"
-Saddles are definitely a place where weight can fluctuate a lot
-Weenie parts like bottom brackets, headsets, bolts, skewers ain't gonna be felt when you do the blindfold test, though your wallet will be lighter.
-As the Wise Bearded One suggests above, geometry can play a big role in how "light" or "heavy" a bike feels once you're rolling. Weight distribution can make the bike feel "planted" or "nimble"
-It is really fun to ride a crazy light bike when it's built right. Unfortunately, this does not describe any of my own bikes.
Interesting. I tend to think the wheels were a lot of it. I do know he had some super light Bontrager hubs. Other than that I don't know what the rims or wheels were. Maybe WTBs? But then really light wheels begs the question a) can I afford it and b) if I can, will it last on a trail other than Lewis Morris?

I had no idea geometry could play such a role. What I'm interested in is finding the equivalent 26" bike and seeing how that climbs. What is the equivalent 26er?
 

jdog

Shop: Halter's Cycles
Shop Keep
I now have 2 SS bikes. One 26 and one 29. They are both amazing bikes but I can't point to one and say I prefer it. If I had to choose it would still be my 26" wheeled 7. But since it was custom built for me and I have so mush more time on it I know what it is cabable of.

I am learning more about the 29" with each ride. I would sal that you really can't go wrong with a KM but If I were looking around that price I might also consider the Flight. I just like green.

I guess the equvilent to the KM is a Surly 1x1 but good luck finding anyone with one. I haven't sold one in a few years. Bascially since 29" caught on fire.



j
 

anrothar

entirely thrilled
i don't think the 1x1 would be an accurate equivalent for comparing the two wheel sizes. it would have to be same components, same rider position, and a curved seat tube/tucked wheel to allow for any advantages the km presents. i have a 1x1. one of the original ones. it's not built up though, and is retired from duty with high honors.
 

SpartaBard

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
jdog,

...We had a SASS with us, which (to me) didn't climb as well as my regular FS bike. It felt heavy and lethargic, expecially compared to the KM...
Doh!

I just got my MUSS all put together, I am only waiting for my Candy Cs to get in. Let me know when you guys are doing a SS ride again.
 
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