Opinion of Hartshorne

I'm gonna guess that collisions with other riders or trail users are pretty rare at Hartshorne.

I've only collided hard with another rider once - at Huber of all places. Head to head coming around a blind corner. It did in fact hurt.

never had one. came closest a few years back in 6MR (no surprise with all the twisties). there is one location in Hartshorne that makes me cautious - on the Laurel Ridge trail theres a tight "S" curve on a quick little uphill (going clockwise) that is completely blind. if you hear a guy yelling "coming up. coming up!!!" that's me. I yell that loudly every time at that location. jsut scared some dude is gonna come bombing down on me. other than that I agree, there arent TOO many places where this is a problem.
 
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this is why the hubbie and I have bells on our bikes. Jingly bells. Hikers have often thanked us for having them as they hear us coming.
 
never had one. came closest a few years back in 6MR (no surprise with all the twisties). there is one location in Hartshorne that makes me cautious - on the Laurel Ridge trail theres a tight "S" curve on a quick little uphill (going clockwise) that is completely blind. if you hear a guy yelling "coming up. coming up!!!" that's me. I yell that loudly every time at that location. jsut scared some dude is gonna come bombing down on me. other than that I agree, there arent TOO many places where this is a problem.

I do the same thing there, going both up and down when I forget to attach my bell. Pretty much any section that I can't see that far ahead(if coming down Devils Elbow hot after you reach the bottom and the trail swoops left then right with the brush on both sides as an example).
 
this is why the hubbie and I have bells on our bikes. Jingly bells. Hikers have often thanked us for having them as they hear us coming.

I have a bell too. but I find, that for some reason, people sometimes have a problem figuring out where the bell noises are coming from (you ever notice people sometimes dont automatically look in your direction...they kinda look all around when you ring the bell). so in a particularly blind spot like the one mentioned above (where I dont know if someone is coming), I yell.
 
hartshorne

🙂
Another viewpoint from someone who has called Hartshorne my home park for 20-some years:

- Not everyone is a devotee to the "flow" thing. Yeah, the fast and swoopy parts are great, but I personally get more satisfaction from making a gnarly climb. I'm more into the "variety" thing, I guess.

- The climbs at Hartshorne aren't that difficult. I'm mid-50's and ride a fatbike fer crissakes. Most days I make 'em all. Ride more often and try harder.

- I understand the issue of sustainability, but sustainability is a relative term. I did trail maintenance back in the early 90s when Wally Tunison was the lead civilian. Some of those trails that we built back then have held up pretty well. Compare that to say, Allaire, where because of the soil, a trail might get pretty chewed up after 3-5 years. There are sidewalls on some trails at Allaire that are 4 feet high. None of the Hartshorne trails are currently that bad. (I know, the old 3 Hills trail was like that, if there are any other old timers here)

- The bigger issue at Hartshorne is the widening of some trails by people going around the hard parts. Maybe some parallel logs along the trail edges would help?

- I hate to say this, but most of the trails that have been closed were some of my favorites, and the new ones cut in the last half dozen years or so are just boring. The pitch is gone, and there's a consistent lack of all of the things that make a trail interesting to me: rocks, roots, logs, whoops, etc. This is not meant to be a knock on anyone who helped build them. I'm sure that they're that way for a reason.

Because of these things, I dread any large scale changes to the place. Please just wait 10 or 20 years until I'm dead or too old to ride there anymore. 😉

Cheers,
Pat

Pat I couldn't agree more. Nice to see someone remembers three hills! How about the powerline trail. I was also doing TM with Wally and the NJCCC crew back then with Ed Orr from the parks dept. I would like it if the parks were like a ski resort. You have options to ride easy stuff like a beginner run and work your way up to the diamonds. I know what people are going to say, if you want technical and rocks than go up north, and I get it and I do go up north, west, and anywhere else to ride but that doesn't mean you should change an existing trail system to make it flowy or whatever. There is plenty of flow at hartshorne and the small obstacles are few and far inbetween. Jesus this is mountain biking isn't it!
 
i honestly dont know about that.

dont know anything about trail building but looking forward to moving dirt.

also - agree with SmoothP's comment about making it "faster and flowier" might increase potential for accidents. think its all about sight lines though. the worst are the blind corners (in any park).

You do seem to know the network very well - and that one post you wrote could only be done by someone that knows Hart well and has ridden it a lot over the years. I'm sure you can tell I really enjoyed it.

Sight line is the key for potential accidents. Coming down something smooth - your eye will be further ahead. Coming down torn up stuff your eye will be closer. Granted you will be going slower but I am thinking less in control. Blind corners are where things could get ugly. Not so bad in the winter where you can see forever and you can hear people from way up ahead but different animal in the summer.
 
Wow, what a great dialogue my original post has started (or continued!).


For Hartshorne in general, I was thinking an of entire overhaul. My dream for Hartshorne would be something like this:

1. Completely new trails that take advantage of the terrain (obviously alot of existing trails would stay). While it is winter and you can see everything, look around and notice how much terrain is being wasted and not utilized. I would build alot more benchcut, wherever possible. I would say you could cut 4-5 miles of fresh trail, while getting rid of 1-2 miles of the stuff that doesnt work and end up with a trail system that would blend in just as easy as the trails do now.

2. Construct an outer trail that allows you to do a loop without backtracking on itself.

3. Reroutes of existing trails in obvious areas. I L-O-V-E technical trails until the end of the Earth but erosion is not the way to get there. Erosion is what makes the trail feel 'tired and run down' not technical.

4. Directional riding on different days. With MTBers and hikers going in opposite directions. They do it like this where I live now and it is awesome. No more scaring hikers who dont see you coming.

5. I would build new trail to utilize the bunkers and the batteries as much as possible. Not in a freeride kind of way but just so the trail passed near them or over them. I cant tell you how many out of town friends I have brought to Hartshorne, who were amazed at the military installations. And you know what, they're right !!! The fact that we get to ride around an old fort, built to protect NYC from invasion is pretty F'ing cool.

Ok, that's it for now time to watch Alabama vs Notre Dame

mmm, talk of benchcut and directional trail that utilizes the natural beauty and history of the Hartshorne Woods? Man, that would be awesome and you have some great points and one espeically that I would never have thought of but is dead on (point #5). There is one part of Rocky Point that goes near a bunker which I always think is cool when riding past.

Like your phrasing on erosion makes a trail "feel tired and rundown". There is a short piece on Grand Tour (between Bunker loop and Command loop) that is nicely done. It's armoured up with a bunch of rock and at least for me, it can be tough to do clean 100% of the time. Or that march up Laurel Ridge (with the viewing area on the top). The old route was chewed to hell but I think the new one still gives a good climb and it is mostly bench'd so water doesn't murder it. It needs some fixing up top but overall a good mix of tech and sustainable.

Anyways, might be a lot to implement your ideas but you never know and it's always fun to have "would be cool" dreams for trails. I do it all the time!
 
never had one. came closest a few years back in 6MR (no surprise with all the twisties). there is one location in Hartshorne that makes me cautious - on the Laurel Ridge trail theres a tight "S" curve on a quick little uphill (going clockwise) that is completely blind. if you hear a guy yelling "coming up. coming up!!!" that's me. I yell that loudly every time at that location. jsut scared some dude is gonna come bombing down on me. other than that I agree, there arent TOO many places where this is a problem.

I know that "S" section. Fun in both directions. Going back to one of my earlier posts - that shows that a trimming crew (level 1) is just as important as a crew that is benchcutting (level 3). Some trimming in that area could make it safer.
 
Pat and I would like to attend this course. We have talked about it for the past few years and never got there. Hartshorne and Huber are both favorite local trails for us.The fly in the ointment is Pat has just had a knee replacement on her left knee and the right one will be scheduled sometime in March. If it is after the 9th I feel we will be there. If the surgery is scheduled before the 9th we will have to pass, or I may be able to attend solo.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem
 
Pat and I would like to attend this course. We have talked about it for the past few years and never got there. Hartshorne and Huber are both favorite local trails for us.The fly in the ointment is Pat has just had a knee replacement on her left knee and the right one will be scheduled sometime in March. If it is after the 9th I feel we will be there. If the surgery is scheduled before the 9th we will have to pass, or I may be able to attend solo.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem

Ed there is another date set for May 18th if your wife's surgery prevents you from attending in March. Hope all works out ok.

Trails Maintenance Workshop for New Team Members
Saturday, May 18 from 9:00am-12noon
(ages 16 & up)
Thompson Park Annex, Training Center, 53 Longbridge Road, Holmdel
Become a team member. Call for more information 732 842-4000
 
I have a bell too. but I find, that for some reason, people sometimes have a problem figuring out where the bell noises are coming from (you ever notice people sometimes dont automatically look in your direction...they kinda look all around when you ring the bell). so in a particularly blind spot like the one mentioned above (where I dont know if someone is coming), I yell.

I dont have a bell you have to ring, its a jingle bell (think bear bell) and jingles whenever it gets shaken, which is a lot on a trail like Hartshorne. I think it works better as the sound moves toward them and they can focus on it better than a single ring or two.

Planning on attending the course. Maybe I missed it but is there a need to preregister? I saw something about downloading a form but am loath to do it 🙄
 
Ed there is another date set for May 18th if your wife's surgery prevents you from attending in March. Hope all works out ok.

Trails Maintenance Workshop for New Team Members
Saturday, May 18 from 9:00am-12noon
(ages 16 & up)
Thompson Park Annex, Training Center, 53 Longbridge Road, Holmdel
Become a team member. Call for more information 732 842-4000
Thanks Chris,
I've noted the 5/18 date on the calendar. It would be ideal for us to attend together rather than trying to do it individually.
E&P
tSRt
 
Pat and I would like to attend this course. We have talked about it for the past few years and never got there. Hartshorne and Huber are both favorite local trails for us.The fly in the ointment is Pat has just had a knee replacement on her left knee and the right one will be scheduled sometime in March. If it is after the 9th I feel we will be there. If the surgery is scheduled before the 9th we will have to pass, or I may be able to attend solo.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem

Dude, hope Pat heals quick
 
Planning on attending the course. Maybe I missed it but is there a need to preregister? I saw something about downloading a form but am loath to do it 🙄

I emailed the Volunteer Coordinator (mkelly@monmouthcountyparks.com) asking to reserve a spot. she emailed back immediately confirming my spot. I have no idea if "preregistering" is required but I figured it couldnt hurt. you may want to do the same.

the form is apparently required. it can be found here... http://co.monmouth.nj.us/documents/132/Volunteer Application 2011.pdf
 
Dude, hope Pat heals quick
Me too! after the left last Friday she is already up and using a cane. Should be on the recumbent bike for range of motion exercises next week. Just hoping the right knee in March goes as smoothly. Thanks for the wish!
E&P
 

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