No Guns for Princeton Police.

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
"In a March 3 column, however, Lanzi said that Public Safety officers would not be able to adequately respond to an "active shooter situation" on campus, such as the recent tragedies at Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech."

Kind of interesting if you look at it from this prospective....
 

Wobbegong

Well-Known Member
"In a March 3 column, however, Lanzi said that Public Safety officers would not be able to adequately respond to an "active shooter situation" on campus, such as the recent tragedies at Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech."

Kind of interesting if you look at it from this prospective....

I guess they would fall back on the town/borough police but I'd think this would slow down a response. I say arm em.
 

clutch

New Member
"In a March 3 column, however, Lanzi said that Public Safety officers would not be able to adequately respond to an "active shooter situation" on campus, such as the recent tragedies at Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech."

Kind of interesting if you look at it from this prospective....

Were Virginia Tech and NIU police armed? Did it help them?
As of 1996 19% of public universities had "unarmed" police agencies

American college students are 75 times more likely to die off campus rather than on. What Should You Really Fear?

Just some food for thought. I wonder if anyone has done a study of whether you're more likely to get shot by a cop on campus or someone else.
 

MST.ESQ

New Member
Were Virginia Tech and NIU police armed? Did it help them?

Statistics and studies have been examined on numerous occasions concerning the deterrent effect of firearms and proliferation of multiple victim attacks in "gun safe" venues. Do tragedies happen in places where police are armed? Yes - but they are more the exception than the rule as a result of the deterrent effect - and usually end up being quick hit/suicide missions (such as VT, Columbine, etc.) that end before help can arrive (in part since concealed carry permits are generally not valid on school grounds). Consider the differences in violent crime rates, home invasions, etc., in Vermont (one page of gun laws) v. Chicago/Wash. D.C. (restrictive to out-right bans), etc.

Take a look at John Lott's book, More Guns Less Crime for a good overview of the stats... For every VT there are a few such as: "Mississippi attack was thwarted after vice principal Joel Myrick retrieved a handgun from his trunk. The killer had already shot several people at Pearl High School, and was leaving that school to attack Pearl Junior High, when Myrick pointed his .45 pistol at the killer’s head and apprehended him. A few days later, an armed adult stopped a school rampage in Edinboro, Pennsylvania..." But you may not have heard of this instances since news agencies, such as the Boston Herald for example, neglected to mention how the shooters were stopped.

I see no reason why Princeton police should not be armed. They are well trained and should be treated no different than other municipal or county departments. Are Princeton police officers somehow less trustworthy? The public expects them to subdue a knife wielding crazed attacker - but this may somehow be outweighed by fear of harm from the police themselves?
 

Suhr40

New Member
All over this state, whether you know it or not, police are being trained to respond to "active shooter" scenerios in schools and other dense population areas. This is happening almost every day throughout NJ. For the University to defer their responsibility in a crisis onto another PD is not right. If this is their wish, the university should simply have campus security officers and dismantle the police. There should be no gray area here. Police are trained that they are the last line of defense, and to send them out unarmed is absurd.
If the University Police are sworn officers with full arrest powers, they should be armed. The power of arrest is more of a responsibility than a power. If a police officer comes across a crime he/she is bound by law to take action, armed or not. For example, if the University Police come across an individual on campus causing a disturbance. They check his ID and, oh my!, he didn't go to court for that speeding ticket he got two years ago. The judge in whatever town gave the ticket automatically issued a $500 warrant for your guy, which is totally standard practice. Guess who now is legally obligated to arrest this dude? You got it! Campus PD better hope that guy doesn't mind getting locked up, and isn't armed. Looks like they just brought a flashlight to a gunfight. This stuff happens.
The ironic thing is that when these cops are OFF duty, they legally may carry a weapon.
 

ArmyOfNone

Well-Known Member
This debate is not new and has been going on way long before I got hired by the university. I typically do not like to comment on the issue but I feel this is a bit unique so Ill do my best.

It has been a long standing tradition at the University that its Police Officers do not carry firearms. The thought is to portray an image that the campus is safe and the threat level for violent crime is low. It a nut shell we are a necessary evil. The university needs us but would like us to be as low profile as possible. This goes even so far that we had to remove "Police" from our patrol vehicles. It has only been about 4 years that we have been wearing a standard uniform. Past practice has been that Police Officers were outfitted with a jacket and tie.

We are equipped with an expandable baton, OC spray and handcuffs. We have full police powers, receive the same Police Training Certification that municipal Police Officers get and we have jurisdiction in Princeton Borough, Princeton Township, West Windsor, and Plainsboro.

Not carrying a firearm significantly changes the level of service that we can provide so the University and surrounding community. We must approach subjects with extreme caution and in certain situations have had to retreat from an incident for the fear of putting myself and other officers in jeopardy.

I personally have made 5 arrests of high level street gang members on campus since February.

It is the Universities belief that they can rely on an outside police agency for back up and support. Yes, we do have a good working relationship with these police departments. But the reality of the situation is that they do not patrol campus. The buildings on campus are very intricate and a responding officer from another agency does not have the training or knowledge of a building to navigate themselves.

As a police officer you are obligated by law to respond to any act of violence. We do dont have the option to retreat. However our situation is a bit unique. God forbid a VT happen on campus.

Students feel that we would would be less approachable if we carried weapons. Some feel that we will enter their rooms to bust up parties guns drawn.

Our goal is to at least open the floor to thinking about carrying firearms between the Police and University officials. At this point in time they are not ready to do so.

Yes it is true that the campus is safe statistically. However, campus is open to the public and everyone is welcome to come and go as they please. We will continue to do our job the same regardless if we carry or not.

I hope this provides a bit of insight for you all on the issue. If you do a bit of searching you will find a bunch more articles in the local papers about the issue. Any more questions Ill do my best to answer.
 

MST.ESQ

New Member
We have full police powers, receive the same Police Training Certification that municipal Police Officers get... Yes, we do have a good working relationship with these police departments. But the reality of the situation is that they do not patrol campus... As a police officer you are obligated by law to respond to any act of violence. We do dont have the option to retreat.

The above quote is the heart of the debate. You can't have it both ways, either have armed police patrolling this very large and intricate campus - or do not require campus police to respond to an act of violence and allow them the option to retreat!

ArmyOfNone: You have our full respect and admiration for what you do to keep us all safe! Especially since you are expected to break-up underage drinking parties:D
 

Wobbegong

Well-Known Member
Deny the officers the tools for their own safety...... Government at its finest...:rolleyes:

Your bound by law to respond to an incident, but they deny you the equipment you are heavily trained to use.

I have a lot of respect for Fred (and the other officers of the University). He's given the full responsibility of a police officer in an area with known gang issues, and they send him out unarmed. I know that Princeton isn't Harlem, but there are some serious issues in the area. Stay safe my brother.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
I know that Princeton isn't Harlem, but there are some serious issues in the area. Stay safe my brother.

Not being from the area, I always thought Princeton was all high society people and the first time we had dinner in the boro, I thought, what is with all the ghetto people around? While 95% of princeton twp and boro are very well off, there are a few shady areas. While I have seen much, much, much worse (being bike jacked at gun point in baltimore comes to mind) and never feel unsafe, there are some shady characters down there by the hospital...
 

ArmyOfNone

Well-Known Member
Yea there is a good mix in town. We happen to see a bunch of them quite often. Here is some irony for ya. I won the firearms award in my class for having the highest qualification score.:hmmm:
 

dualfisted

Member
Quit

Hey, they don't wanna give u the tools to keep u safe,,,, leave. The pay may be worth it on the average night, but when u gotta bring a nightstick to a gunfight, well, yur life aint worth it. My job gives me those tools.
 

Wobbegong

Well-Known Member
Yea there is a good mix in town. We happen to see a bunch of them quite often. Here is some irony for ya. I won the firearms award in my class for having the highest qualification score.:hmmm:

Do you at least have access to a shooting range??
 

Shaggz

A strong 7
Quickdraw McFred:getsome:
More Like:

71116-xl.jpg
 
Top