Logging in State Parks?

I was watching that show Ax Men and they say they plant like 5 trees for every one that was taken down. Not that I believe it or anything, but theoretically, we should end up with more trees.
 
It's just amazing that "ruts from moutain biking" can get us thrown out of a park. Has anyone seen what happens when a logging crew goes into an area?
 
Time to fire off some nasty letters 😀 I am SICK of the continual abuse of NJ residents. How much of your money goes to NJ? They take income tax plus another 7% of your take-home when you spend it. Plus you pay property taxes. Where does all of this go? Oh, lets not forget "sin taxes" on alcohol, tobacco, gambling, etc. Plus your fees for fishing and hunting licenses. Yet the state still needs MORE? And to get that they're going to trash our state parks for money? BULL SHIT. Assemblyman John McKeon is a moron, plain and simple.

Gov. Chris Christie recently unveiled a plan to turn some other park services over to private companies, such as concessions and boat rentals. Christie wants two-thirds of the state park budget to come from alternative funding and new fees
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Christie, how about you fix the mismanagement of the money that WE ARE ALREADY funneling into this state? Don't look for ways to bastardize the system even further at the fiscal and recreational expense of the residents of New Jersey.
 
Just to be a devil's advocate, could the privatization of parks result in more and better trails and features we cannot build on public parks? How about return of mountain biking to essex county and bergen?

Probably wishful thinking. How are they gonna turn over control of public parks to private firms and prevent them from building shopping malls on them?
 
soundz said:
Just to be a devil's advocate, could the privatization of parks result in more and better trails and features we cannot build on public parks? How about return of mountain biking to essex county and bergen?

Probably wishful thinking. How are they gonna turn over control of public parks to private firms and prevent them from building shopping malls on them?
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I doubt it. Privatization = someone needs to make a profit somewhere. I don't see how that benefits the parks, the state, and the users. As for the shopping malls there would (you'd hope...) be provisions against that in the law that allows the privatization.
 
rlb said:
Christie, how about you fix the mismanagement of the money that WE ARE ALREADY funneling into this state? Don't look for ways to bastardize the system even further at the fiscal and recreational expense of the residents of New Jersey.
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Actually, if the governor and legislature could segregate these costs to people who actually use the items or services, I'm all for it. For example, I would gladly pay a $25 a year fee to use state parks for my mountain biking IF my taxes were not used to pay for items and services I don't use (mass transit, Giant's Stadium, New Jersey Performing Arts Center, NJ shore beaches, etc). If I just have to pay for the services/resources I use, that would be fine (and much cheaper!) for me.
However, you are probably right. These fees would be funneled into the big government machine that is NJ and will be used to subsidize all those pet make-work projects for the cities.
 
Allamuchy Joe said:
However, you are probably right. These fees would be funneled into the big government machine that is NJ and will be used to subsidize all those pet make-work projects for the cities.
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Well I did "greyhound off the handle" when I first read this. I've got quite the knee jerk sometimes, but anyway...I read the proposed bill and it directs the logging money into a fund that's supposed to improve parks. However, I'd suspect that another piece of paper will materialize allowing the government to drain that fund in favor of some other wasteful spending.

I'm not a forestry expert but I don't understand why active management of the forest is needed. Isn't that just counter-intuitive? The whole premise behind the bill is that the forests are neglected and need stewardship. Running machinery through it to cut down trees doesn't seem too helpful in my mind.

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/A4500/4358_I1.PDF
 
rlb said:
I'm not a forestry expert but I don't understand why active management of the forest is needed. Isn't that just counter-intuitive? The whole premise behind the bill is that the forests are neglected and need stewardship. Running machinery through it to cut down trees doesn't seem too helpful in my mind.
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The other option is to do it the natural way and permit forest fires to burn instead of extinguishing them. Forest fires are a part of the natural cycle of a forest. That happens more out west where it is dryer than here. NJ is so densely populated that it might be much more dangerous to allows fires here, though.

I don't like the idea of machinery in the state parks, but if managed right, they should be able to use the fireroads for access to the inner parts of the park. A lot of those access roads were built "back in the day" for logging purposes/farming before the land was owned by the state.
 
Allamuchy Joe said:
The other option is to do it the natural way and permit forest fires to burn instead of extinguishing them
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Agreed, but assume there is a cut to mimic a natural event. There's no guarantee that a true natural event wont occur the next day. The whole thing just sounds foreign to me. However, your point is exactly what they're using the support the bill:


23 c. The Legislature further finds and declares that forest lands
24 consist of a complex ecology; that, historically, natural
25 disturbances, such as large-scale fires occurring every 50 to 60
26 years, served to restart forest growth and allow the emergence of
27 early successional forests, open space and grassy areas necessary
28 for certain wildlife species; that allowing such large-scale fires or
29 other natural disturbances to occur near existing homes and other
30 development today would be detrimental to the citizens of New
31 Jersey; and that management techniques that attempt to mimic such
32 forest changing events in a controlled and sustainable manner are
33 necessary to ensure the continued health and biodiversity of New
34 Jersey’s forests.
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Even though i live and breathe loggin I'd chose forest fires first. That said, Allamuchy is almost choked to stagnation from a forestry standpoint and could really use some massive intervention. Theres probably more than a million dollars of poplar up there just sitting useless. Man I'd love to send some 150 footers sailin thru the canopy:getsome:
 
i think "they" running out of papers so now they want to make more paper to print more "dough" to pay debt they owe!!😀
oh,..wait.thats not a smart move isn't it??
thats like diggin' your own grave.😛
sorry,folks!
 
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Living trees aren't exactly useless. They produce oxygen... for our cars to breathe (;

Visit some logged forest before you decide. It's not land where you want to spend time.

Not that Christie spends much time hiking, biking or walking outside, so what do you expect?
 
rlb said:
Agreed, but assume there is a cut to mimic a natural event. There's no guarantee that a true natural event wont occur the next day. The whole thing just sounds foreign to me. However, your point is exactly what they're using the support the bill:
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When I was out in Yosemite years ago, the forest service had a whole section closed so they could do a controlled/contained burn. You could smell the fire for miles around -- it was very strange and a bit disconserting to be hiking in the middle of the woods with the smoke smell.
The rangers at the visitor's station told us about the issues they had in years past because they had so much dry deadfall in the woods. When a fire starts in a section of woods with tons of deadfall, it really burns hot and is very difficult to put out. And, most of the trees that would have survived a normal fire do not survive an event like that.
 
bystickel said:
Living trees aren't exactly useless. They produce oxygen... for our cars to breathe (;

Visit some logged forest before you decide. It's not land where you want to spend time.

Not that Christie spends much time hiking, biking or walking outside, so what do you expect?
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If you ride in Stephens, you can see evidence of a recently logged area. It is by the Mount Olive mulch pit and is owned by the township of Mount Olive. Also, the area adjacent to Allamuchy was recently logged. That area is private land owned by the Seventh Day Adventists. There are still lots of trees standing -- the fireroads did take a beating. However, these were areas where they didn't care about preserving trails, so I don't know how different it would be in the state parks.
 
rlb said:
What trails are closest to this? I'd like to take a look next time I'm up there
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From the railroad tressel underpass, you head straight up the hill toward the mulch pit. The 1/2 mile to mile before the mulch pit access road has been logged. In fact, the trail goes through the logged portion.
This is the trail most people climb to the top of the park. It was really noticable at first, but now you can't tell too much.
 
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Anyone see the evidence of Forrest regeneration pen construction in south mountain res? anyone with any sence of what they are doing wouldn't bulldoze a half mile of trees, underbrush and trails to put in a 50' x 50' fence. That didn't stop them though, the destruction to put in those pens was bizarre. I can't imagine logging would be any less destructive. Forrest service people in Colorado aren't repurposed road builders like they seem to be around here. Wish I remembered who recently suggested this but a politician brought up reviving the civilian conservation corps, awesome idea to spend money more productively then handing over the millions to road builders to "restore the trails"

Sorry for the rant...😀
 
"People have to realize there is nothing going on with our state forests right now," said Sen. Bob Smith (D-Middlesex), the bill’s sponsor. "That’s why we need an innovative program in the middle of this economic morass to generate revenue to help protect them."

Bob you're a mor-ass alright. Fix our bridges and roads. They can't even keep the trees cleared from overhanging the power lines that line the roads.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/nj_legislature_pushes_bills_to.html

Put me in the "shoot more deer and kill invasive weeds" column.
 
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