Know your opposition

mergs

Spokompton's Finest
JORBA.ORG
The best defense is a good offense. Keep your friends close your enemies closer. These are both well known cliches but they do ring true. In that spirit, I want to bring you one of the most vocal critics of mountain biking: Michael J Vandeman.

His website: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/

His argument against mtb: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7

A pictorial argument against mtb:
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/overview

Its guys like this that make folks like us from JORBA and IMBA a little sensitive about some of the things people post, especially pictures. I hate to sound like the fun police and I really do dread this part of the "job", but pictures of people "drifting" on the mtbNJ can (with a couple of mouse clicks) become pictures of mountain bikers "skidding". This a .50 caliber ammunition to MJV's of the world. I'm not trying to single anyone out, this is a general statement just for all of us to think about, going forward.

The MJV site is really worth reading. Not everyone agrees with this guy but he does have traction at times. The things that save us are a) we're outstanding trail stewards, b) we now use good trail etiquette, and c) we have the science on our side (hiking and biking on a sustainably built trail are indeed similar). remove a, b or c and the balance starts shifting back to a ban bikes attitude in the public and land managers. flip off a hiker or two, start skidding all over the place, never attend trail maintenance. these are the threats to to mtb in NJ. the enemy, in essence, is within. be an advocate.
 
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elzoller

El Guac-Oh
I hear what you are saying I will read the whole thing when I get the chance
but how 'bout the balls on this guy to post a picture of Tara Llanes under the
This is what happens when you don't use your brain. label. Totally uncalled for.

like I said, I didn't read it so I can't comment any further.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
I hear what you are saying I will read the whole thing when I get the chance
but how 'bout the balls on this guy to post a picture of Tara Llanes under the
This is what happens when you don't use your brain. label. Totally uncalled for.

like I said, I didn't read it so I can't comment any further.

I agree, what an ass. I also think it is stupid he showed pictures in a race setting.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I was reading the article, just sorta humming along, but then it jumped the shark with this:

They conclude that the recreation impacts are "short-term", and experience "rapid recovery". This is unjustified. Killing plants and destroying seeds modifies the gene pool, and introduces human-caused loss of genetic diversity, and evolution. Dead plants and lost genetic diversity do not "recover" (see Vandeman, 2001).

The piece is certainly not objective, and at times seems to be written by a 6th grader. Thankfully one of MJV's biggest enemies is himself, as if often the case with absolutists like this. His argument isn't entirely without merit. But it's also incomplete and unobjective and eventually collapses under its own weight.
 
T

tlnj

Guest
I really wouldn't worry aboout this guy

I mean, look at his Website. Do you really think anyone could take him seriously? He's obviously psychotic.

Pay him no mind and we win.
 

jbogner

NYCMTB: President
JORBA.ORG
He's the lunatic fringe of anti-mtb activists, and the thing that really kills his cred is that he's actually anti-human-activity in all natural areas... a real misanthrope. Most environmental activists are realistic about the need for recreation and activity to sustain economies and protect resources. Without recreational users to campaign for the protection of an area, it's WAY too easy for commercial interests to snatch up the land and use it in a way that impacts the land far, far worse than some bicycle tires.

As a side note, he did send NYC Parks a letter after the announcement about legal trails in NYC. We were honored. ;)

Honestly, though, the guy has very limited influence and most land management agencies actually know about him and his crackpot reputation...
 

monkey boy

Self-Imposed Exile
in the spirit of "stirring the pot" I went ahead and emailed the good doctor here it is..If I ever get a reply I will surely post it up.

"OK. I have read a few of your articles, not all, and I am intersted in what you recommend we do as a society to stop the evils of humanity in the great outdoors.
If we can not go out side what else is there? What about all the damage we have done since we climbed out of the trees, stood upright, and created that pesky civilization of ours.
I am in a real bind here. I would be more than willing to get rid of my car, but if I use my bicycle on the road dosent that just perpetuate the negative cycle of paving the forests?
If I walk I could use vegan shoes but there is still the issue of a rubber sole, petrolium byproduct and all. OK bare foot, summertime only. Oh! god what now I cant go on the roads or on a path again with the perpetuation of a negative cycle.
Oh wait there is my rocket boots I am engineering. NOPE the fuel used creates carbon by products. AHHH I got it! Hydregon fuel cells, a bit heavy but worth it. Oh no, no can do, I may get in the flight path of a bird, disrupting it's natural surroundings thus creating all the issues we have on the ground in the air.
Oh I guess I am screwed here doc.
could you please help."
 

Glancing Aft

Active Member
Ha I love it. Let me know when you finish those boots, they sound like fun!

I was tempted to email him to ask him to remove himself from this planet so he doesn't run the risk of being a hypocrite. But I held back...

I do wonder how he captured that image of the frog in his pictorial overview though. Also what kind of server is he using to host his site that has no environmental impact!?
 

monkey boy

Self-Imposed Exile
I'm a tool

Holy Crap he wrote back. and it was not as nuts as I thought it would be.:rofl:

At 12:16 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote:
>OK. I have read a few of your articles, not all, and I
>am intersted in what you recommend we do as a society
>to stop the evils of humanity in the great outdoors.
>If we can not go out side what else is there?

Where did I say you can't go outside? Maybe you should improve the
community where you live, so you would have less of a need to destroy
wildlife's home.

> What
>about all the damage we have done since we climbed out
>of the trees, stood upright, and created that pesky
>civilization of ours.
>I am in a real bind here. I would be more than willing
>to get rid of my car, but if I use my bicycle on the
>road dosent that just perpetuate the negative cycle of
>paving the forests?

Not if you don't support expansion of the road system.

OK so he has never seen north jersey on a road map , not much room left for roads or anything else.

>If I walk I could use vegan shoes but there is still
>the issue of a rubber sole, petrolium byproduct and
>all. OK bare foot, summertime only. Oh! god what now I
>cant go on the roads or on a path again with the
>perpetuation of a negative cycle.
>Oh wait there is my rocket boots I am engineering.
>NOPE the fuel used creates carbon by products. AHHH I
>got it! Hydregon fuel cells, a bit heavy but worth it.
>Oh no, no can do, I may get in the flight path of a
>bird, disrupting it's natural surroundings thus
>creating all the issues we have on the ground in the
>air.
>Oh I guess I am screwed here doc.
>could you please help.

Do your homework. I'm sure you are capable of answering your own
questions, if you half try.

I did half try! that was my point. The fuel cells are just to damn heavy for the rocket boots:D

--

I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

"pure Habitat?"
I ve been there its called the Seringhetti. Humans dont do to well out there alone for long. That is why we used our higher brain functions to get the hell out of there, and get PhD's:D
KO now I have to jump into my Hummer and drive a mile to the snowboard shop where my rain forest wood core snowboard is being waxed up with some nice man made waxes.


Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 

mergs

Spokompton's Finest
JORBA.ORG
"Seringhetti"

I love it.

I've actually been to the Serengeti, and there are people living there... they are called the Masai. They do well.

Life is about balance, and I firmly believe we can achieve balance in outdoor recreational pursuits with responsible stewardship of the land. MJV disagrees fundamentally with this any many others do too. Many of them reside in Essex County NJ for example.

Has the drifting photo been placed on his site yet? :hmmm:
 

jdog

Shop: Halter's Cycles
Shop Keep
I am not sure if this guy is the real enemy.

An organized force that works to make mt bikers look like land rapers is more realistic.

I am not sure who got south mt and watching closed but I am sure that they were organized and probably well connected.

Having 30+ mt bikes come to trail work days and put their money where their mouths are is a great force.

BTW.. I used to live on a dirt road in Maine where we would have skidding contests.

I have a long history of skidding.. But I try to resist when mt biking.

J_
 

monkey boy

Self-Imposed Exile
"Seringhetti"

I love it.

I've actually been to the Serengeti, and there are people living there... they are called the Masai. They do well.

Life is about balance, and I firmly believe we can achieve balance in outdoor recreational pursuits with responsible stewardship of the land. MJV disagrees fundamentally with this any many others do too. Many of them reside in Essex County NJ for example.

Has the drifting photo been placed on his site yet? :hmmm:

Yeah my spelling sucks. buit I fall no my head alot riding above my skill level and a helmet dosent even help.

Yes the Masi do live there. but in very limited numbers.
were you in Kenya ot Tanzinia? I went a couple of years ago and did not want to come back.

Talk about balance, in Nairobi they put really thick barbed wire around the flower gardens so when the Masi bring the cattle into the city during drought they don't eat the plants down to nothing.

Drifting....thats way to fast and to furious for me:D
 

FFT

Gay & Stuffy
I hope the activists are using computers made of peat moss that conect to the worldwideweb via grape vines and wear shoes made of banana peels............otherwise they are ruining the environment. Earth is dommed kill you computer NOW!!!
 
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