Is there no 2022 TdF thread?

Blair

Well-Known Member
Has to be the lamest sprint on the champs I have watched. Man, the sprint teams with the biggest miss of the tour; 3 true sprint stages?

Ewan, Jacobsen and a few others pretty much no shows
Agreed, no trains out there, just randoms, surprising FJ didn’t put up more of a fight against DG given all the history. Caleb wasn’t even in the discussion, WVA could have won.
 

Bikeworks

Well-Known Member
He did get the lantern rouge! 😁

He was there in a couple early stages but was blocked out or crashed or something. As the tour went on he just didn't have it anymore. But regardless even just for one stage I don't think he has the horsepower the top 3 guys do.
Cycling is slowly drifting back to the all-rounder for the most part. Ewan (and disappointingly, Sagan), failed to see that (de)-evolution. There will still be specialists, but I don't think teams are interested investing large portions of their resources into 1 trick ponies anymore. And the way those who still do are being exploited or finding less success shows that.
 

Juggernaut

Master of the Metaphor
I have a slightly different take. We’ve always had “all rounders” in cycling. The difference (to me) is two fold. We no longer have several strong well organized teams with creative tactically savvy DS’s the way we had In the past. The result is more of a less formulaic squad with more “classics riders” being selected for the grand tour teams. It’s the throw it at the wall and see what sticks strategy. The other change, which I believe more strategic…is, DS’s are allowing riders to be/remain multi discipline. Years ago a rider, once selected for a road team needed (for the most part) leave the ranks of the CX, XC, etc. top level competition in favor of road specific training pursuits. For better or worse, “Bo Knows” is here to stay….. until it isn’t. 😉
 

NJ-XC-Justin

KY-DH-Freddy
Agree with what both of you are saying. I think teams are just being more aggressive and refusing to do things in the way they are expected to. If you have a wout or Christopher Laporte or anyone with gas but also some endurance, they're no longer going to just wait and measure 200 meter speed. They're taking it hard from a half mile out or maybe joining a breakaway for 30 miles. There will probably still be a cat and mouse game for a few more years but the mouse wins a lot now!
 

Ian F

Well-Known Member
Lance and George mentioned something to that affect in one of the recent podcasts. "I don't recognize today's racing..." They were from the era when a GC rider would focus solely on the Tour(s) and partially blamed Pogacar's bad days on some of his early season races. The idea of a GC Tour rider seriously going for a Classics win hasn't been done in a long time. Of course, Lance also can't understand how Pogacar is so friendly with his fellow racers.

It is rather amazing Vingegaard was "discovered" by putting up a KOM time on a well known Strava climb. A few years ago he was packing fish.

There is also speculation Tom Pidcock could be the first male racer who could win both the Road and Mtb rainbow stripes in a single season in... ever? (Pauline Ferrand Prevot held both women's titles in the past)
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
There is also speculation Tom Pidcock could be the first male racer who could win both the Road and Mtb rainbow stripes in a single season in... ever? (Pauline Ferrand Prevot held both women's titles in the past)
PVP won all three. (MTB, Road, and CX). I think pidcock or MVDP have a chance of doing that which would be cool to see.


I like the new style of racing. It’s almost like half the stages are classics style.
 

1speed

Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
Lance and George mentioned something to that affect in one of the recent podcasts. "I don't recognize today's racing..." They were from the era when a GC rider would focus solely on the Tour(s) and partially blamed Pogacar's bad days on some of his early season races. The idea of a GC Tour rider seriously going for a Classics win hasn't been done in a long time. Of course, Lance also can't understand how Pogacar is so friendly with his fellow racers.

It is rather amazing Vingegaard was "discovered" by putting up a KOM time on a well known Strava climb. A few years ago he was packing fish.

There is also speculation Tom Pidcock could be the first male racer who could win both the Road and Mtb rainbow stripes in a single season in... ever? (Pauline Ferrand Prevot held both women's titles in the past)
That Vingegaard story is somewhat apocryphal, though. Yes, he was working as a fishmonger but it's not quite the rags-to-riches story you may have heard. The reality is that he got that job through a cycling friend as they were both trying to make it as pros. His friend knew another Danish pro cyclist who had worked in a fish factory to make ends meet early in his career as he tried to make it because the hours worked for training. So the guy helped both of them get jobs at the factory. But Jonas wasn't some guy who just appeared on a Strava KOM and landed a contract as a result - he got that KOM to no one's great surprise because he was already racing at a high level and his first contract was with a small continental team (Coloquick) that's actually been a pipeline to a pro career for a number of Danes through the years.

But that said, it's still a great story and contrasts nicely with Pogacar in terms of setting up a rivalry. One is the preternaturally gifted superman, the other developed more organically. I still think Pogacar wins head to head more often than not, but I won't be disappointed if Jonas proves me wrong in that. It's just cool to see what oculd be a generational rivlary forming for two guys who are only just starting out.
 

Juggernaut

Master of the Metaphor
That Vingegaard story is somewhat apocryphal, though. Yes, he was working as a fishmonger but it's not quite the rags-to-riches story you may have heard. The reality is that he got that job through a cycling friend as they were both trying to make it as pros. His friend knew another Danish pro cyclist who had worked in a fish factory to make ends meet early in his career as he tried to make it because the hours worked for training. So the guy helped both of them get jobs at the factory. But Jonas wasn't some guy who just appeared on a Strava KOM and landed a contract as a result - he got that KOM to no one's great surprise because he was already racing at a high level and his first contract was with a small continental team (Coloquick) that's actually been a pipeline to a pro career for a number of Danes through the years.

But that said, it's still a great story and contrasts nicely with Pogacar in terms of setting up a rivalry. One is the preternaturally gifted superman, the other developed more organically. I still think Pogacar wins head to head more often than not, but I won't be disappointed if Jonas proves me wrong in that. It's just cool to see what oculd be a generational rivlary forming for two guys who are only just starting out.
Pogacar needs a healthy-er team with one more super domestique next year. You can freelance your way to Green or Polka Dot, but unless you’re gonna stay in 2nd/3rd until the final TT and steal yellow… ya need protection.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
PVP won all three. (MTB, Road, and CX). I think pidcock or MVDP have a chance of doing that which would be cool to see.


I like the new style of racing. It’s almost like half the stages are classics style.
I think her * is that she did it as u23, obviously amazing regardless.

Things will adapt over time, soon everybody will have break away specialist and then it will start to transition back or to whatever the next phase will be.
 

Bikeworks

Well-Known Member
I have a slightly different take. We’ve always had “all rounders” in cycling. The difference (to me) is two fold. We no longer have several strong well organized teams with creative tactically savvy DS’s the way we had In the past. The result is more of a less formulaic squad with more “classics riders” being selected for the grand tour teams. It’s the throw it at the wall and see what sticks strategy. The other change, which I believe more strategic…is, DS’s are allowing riders to be/remain multi discipline. Years ago a rider, once selected for a road team needed (for the most part) leave the ranks of the CX, XC, etc. top level competition in favor of road specific training pursuits. For better or worse, “Bo Knows” is here to stay….. until it isn’t. 😉
I can appreciate where you're going with this, I just don't know if I agree. When I typed my first response, the team I was thinking of was Quickstep; I found it so odd that they didn't go all-in on sprints for the Tour, knowing JA was out, and especially given how much buzz (clicks/eyes/$$$) they could've had by simply fielding Cavendish, let alone having a result. Yes, they won Stage 2, but it seemed so....meh.

As for the DS angle, I agree with what you said partially; I don't agree with them being less tactical or savvy, if anything your accurate point about having a less formulaic squad forces you to be more creative. JV and EF were extremely tactical during the TdF I felt. TBEx did a great job in getting Matthews the stage win, too. I suppose they are the exception, perhaps that will change as the sport continues to evolve in the direction I suspect.
 

Juggernaut

Master of the Metaphor
I can appreciate where you're going with this, I just don't know if I agree. When I typed my first response, the team I was thinking of was Quickstep; I found it so odd that they didn't go all-in on sprints for the Tour, knowing JA was out, and especially given how much buzz (clicks/eyes/$$$) they could've had by simply fielding Cavendish, let alone having a result. Yes, they won Stage 2, but it seemed so....meh.

As for the DS angle, I agree with what you said partially; I don't agree with them being less tactical or savvy, if anything your accurate point about having a less formulaic squad forces you to be more creative. JV and EF were extremely tactical during the TdF I felt. TBEx did a great job in getting Matthews the stage win, too. I suppose they are the exception, perhaps that will change as the sport continues to evolve in the direction I suspect.

I’m NOT a Vaughters fan, never have been. It’s hard to find someone with his longevity whose done less with more… but that’s MY hang up. And I own that. Jumbos tactics have been fodder for, well forever. Historically they do dumb stuff. No one knows why, but the they do. This year, the rabid pack of super talented alpha dogs stayed focused on the GC prize.
could just as easily run off chasing butterflies like a kindergarten field trip. That’s not tactics it’s wishful thinking. That just my opinion….
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
You want to fact check that? I think and was 23, but won the elite world championship

2009–2010: Triple Junior World Champion[edit]​

In July 2009, Ferrand-Prévot took part in the European Road Championships as a first year junior, where she narrowly won the Junior European time trial title ahead of Ukrainian Hanna Solovey. Four days later she placed third in the road race. Later in the same month, she won the junior European cross country championships, taking her second European title in less than 10 days in two different disciplines. She then participated in the World Junior Championships, winning silver in the time trial behind Hanna Solovey. In late August Ferrand-Prévot won both National Road titles in the junior category. In September, she won her first world title at the World cross country championship, whilst in October, she won the junior Chrono des Nations.

Ferrand-Prévot began her 2010 season competing in cyclo-cross. For women, there is no junior category which meant that she had to compete with the elite athletes. She came eighth in the World Cyclo-cross championships, more than two minutes behind future teammate Marianne Vos. After the cyclo-cross season, she was victorious at the City of Pujols road race, one of the constituent rounds of the Coupe de France, and would go on to top the final ranking in the Coupe de France for juniors. Further, she won a stage of the Circuit de Borsele junior, finishing fourth overall. She competed in the junior mountain bike World Cup, winning the Offenburg round and finished second in the Houffalize round. In mid-July, at the European Championships, Ferrand-Prévot had to settle for silver in both the time trial and road race. Ferrand-Prévot then competed in the junior World road race Championships in Offida, Italy finishing second in the time trial. She retained her junior national road titles. In September she defended successfully the junior Mountain bike world championships in MTB at Mont-Sainte-Anne in Canada, becoming the second rider after Nicole Cooke to hold both World Championship titles in the same year on the road and in mountain biking.

Here is the wiki page if you want to sift through it, i don't care that much but i think it u23 or junior or whatever they call it
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's

2009–2010: Triple Junior World Champion[edit]​

In July 2009, Ferrand-Prévot took part in the European Road Championships as a first year junior, where she narrowly won the Junior European time trial title ahead of Ukrainian Hanna Solovey. Four days later she placed third in the road race. Later in the same month, she won the junior European cross country championships, taking her second European title in less than 10 days in two different disciplines. She then participated in the World Junior Championships, winning silver in the time trial behind Hanna Solovey. In late August Ferrand-Prévot won both National Road titles in the junior category. In September, she won her first world title at the World cross country championship, whilst in October, she won the junior Chrono des Nations.

Ferrand-Prévot began her 2010 season competing in cyclo-cross. For women, there is no junior category which meant that she had to compete with the elite athletes. She came eighth in the World Cyclo-cross championships, more than two minutes behind future teammate Marianne Vos. After the cyclo-cross season, she was victorious at the City of Pujols road race, one of the constituent rounds of the Coupe de France, and would go on to top the final ranking in the Coupe de France for juniors. Further, she won a stage of the Circuit de Borsele junior, finishing fourth overall. She competed in the junior mountain bike World Cup, winning the Offenburg round and finished second in the Houffalize round. In mid-July, at the European Championships, Ferrand-Prévot had to settle for silver in both the time trial and road race. Ferrand-Prévot then competed in the junior World road race Championships in Offida, Italy finishing second in the time trial. She retained her junior national road titles. In September she defended successfully the junior Mountain bike world championships in MTB at Mont-Sainte-Anne in Canada, becoming the second rider after Nicole Cooke to hold both World Championship titles in the same year on the road and in mountain biking.

Here is the wiki page if you want to sift through it, i don't care that much but i think it u23 or junior or whatever they call it
Wow. Then she did it as a junior and as an elite in 2015.

7B9A520B-B194-48E6-8409-1107E7C26A34.jpeg
 

Bikeworks

Well-Known Member
Pogacar needs a healthy-er team with one more super domestique next year. You can freelance your way to Green or Polka Dot, but unless you’re gonna stay in 2nd/3rd until the final TT and steal yellow… ya need protection.
Loses a teammate to Covid, and the other who had Covid but was allowed to stay in DNSs after snapping a chain on a climb. That's pretty crappy luck.

As for Vaughters, I agree with you too. He's not well-liked. But I thought EF did a fine job this year, save being all-in on Uran as GC.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
Loses a teammate to Covid, and the other who had Covid but was allowed to stay in DNSs after snapping a chain on a climb. That's pretty crappy luck.

As for Vaughters, I agree with you too. He's not well-liked. But I thought EF did a fine job this year, save being all-in on Uran as GC.
I find EF very annoying and seem to be in it more for the fashion show than the actually racing. Like you lose minutes on the GC and the same day you post Uran dancing? Ummm, ok
 
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Juggernaut

Master of the Metaphor
Or JV touting clean racing (after the MeaColpa that is) but buried Giamon cuz of the “Clean“ Tattoo. Platitudes over substance, always has been always will be.



edit: starting to get a little too “Get off my Lawn”. I probably need a snickers 😉
 
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