I need to vent or put up hypotheticals about 6MR and mud riders.

Do you mind if I vent?


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NJ Gator

Active Member
Asses will be asses. I will be willing and able to help make the trails what they should be. Packed lots with muddy bikes send a bad message but crews willing to give their time and effort for some TLC sends a message as well.
 

NJ Gator

Active Member
Totally agree and a good post- My comments too apply to the fact the park is closed. There are bad spots I. 6 mile that need tlc in the best of conditions.
 

w_b

Well-Known Member
If there was any enforcement of the closure the word would spread quick. Just sayin’
 

pkovo

Well-Known Member
Someone looking for a volunteer project?
6mr badly needs proper trail closed signage, gates, fencing etc. it’s not a good scene
I don’t think any amount of signage will do it. I think it would need to actually be enforced to prevent people from riding it, as in someone from the park stopping users, ticketing or something. Probably not possible?

I say that because just yesterday I read a thread on some central NJ mountain biking facebook group, and the gist was since its a state park it cant be closed by anybody orher than the state etc. basically the mentality seemed to me to be...go around the signs and ride it anyway. The worst part is although some were arguing to not ride it with valid points, the admin of the group was essentially one of the main people in favor riding it.

Unfortunately I suspect a lot of the people new to riding might be influenced by this a$$hat and not truly understand why riding it wet is such a problem.

I was disgusted enough that I left the group, otherwise I would post some of the thread here.

Im not super in tune with 6mile as I only get there 1-2 times a year so maybe this isn’t news to others but this guy really seemed to have an axe to grind with 6mile being closed and those maintaining it.
 

clarkenstein

JORBA Money Launderer
JORBA.ORG
@pkovo i know exactly who you are talking about. That person is a train wreck and is completely speaking out of their rear end. Very frustrating to say the least and anything counter to their mindset is literally deleted. Trust me on that.

My job has slowed down a bit so I’m going to pop my head in for some recon on foot soon. Probably tomorrow.
 

pkovo

Well-Known Member
@pkovo i know exactly who you are talking about. That person is a train wreck and is completely speaking out of their rear end. Very frustrating to say the least and anything counter to their mindset is literally deleted. Trust me on that.

My job has slowed down a bit so I’m going to pop my head in for some recon on foot soon. Probably tomorrow.
Train wreck sums it up nicely. Unfortunately he has a good size audience in that group and I have to believe many of which are new to the sport and might not know any better. Such a bummer.
 

Tim

aka sptimmy43
I don’t think any amount of signage will do it. I think it would need to actually be enforced to prevent people from riding it, as in someone from the park stopping users, ticketing or something. Probably not possible?
I disagree to some extent. While signs alone will never stop 100% of the asshats, I think the current signage is a joke. It looks like a 3 year-old put it up. I think official looking signage would go a long way. Ever been to Nassau? The signs they have are legit, like fully reflective, high quality, official signs you would find on a street, or anywhere there are government laws and regulation. I think if the signs look the part they may get a little more respect.

I agree that some enforcement would go a long way. In my opinion, the lack of enforcement (coupled with goofy signage) confirms the notion that the closure is not legit.

Finally, while gates at the trailheads would be better than what we have now, gates at the entrances to the parking lots would be far more effective. By the time the cars are in the lot it's already too late.
 

The Kalmyk

Well-Known Member
I walked white this evening, it was dry where it was high or saw plenty of sun, but in some of the shade or low areas there was mud and snow still. This was probably the worst spot, it was similar on the section of red just before it meets blue.
View attachment 153846

There were no trail closed signs up at the Jaques lot; I stopped by canal lot on the way home & there was a closed sign across the trail entrance there.

Yuck
 

hls811

Member
I disagree to some extent. While signs alone will never stop 100% of the asshats, I think the current signage is a joke. It looks like a 3 year-old put it up. I think official looking signage would go a long way. Ever been to Nassau? The signs they have are legit, like fully reflective, high quality, official signs you would find on a street, or anywhere there are government laws and regulation. I think if the signs look the part they may get a little more respect.

I agree that some enforcement would go a long way. In my opinion, the lack of enforcement (coupled with goofy signage) confirms the notion that the closure is not legit.

Finally, while gates at the trailheads would be better than what we have now, gates at the entrances to the parking lots would be far more effective. By the time the cars are in the lot it's already too late.
I don’t think any amount of signage will do it. I think it would need to actually be enforced to prevent people from riding it, as in someone from the park stopping users, ticketing or something. Probably not possible?

I say that because just yesterday I read a thread on some central NJ mountain biking facebook group, and the gist was since its a state park it cant be closed by anybody orher than the state etc. basically the mentality seemed to me to be...go around the signs and ride it anyway. The worst part is although some were arguing to not ride it with valid points, the admin of the group was essentially one of the main people in favor riding it.

Unfortunately I suspect a lot of the people new to riding might be influenced by this a$$hat and not truly understand why riding it wet is such a problem.

I was disgusted enough that I left the group, otherwise I would post some of the thread here.

Im not super in tune with 6mile as I only get there 1-2 times a year so maybe this isn’t news to others but this guy really seemed to have an axe to grind with 6mile being closed and those maintaining it.
I'll preface what I'm going to ask by saying that only do I not ride Six Mile when its closed, if I see someone on FB (or elsewhere) ask, I post a link to the SixMilers group with the status saying its closed to deter people from riding it until its ready. (Same with Nassau as they've publicly posted they were closed). That being said, and to pkovos comment above about the person on FB saying its a state park, is it legitimately and legally closed? If so, everyone there would be trespassing and can that be put on the signs (and the fine enforced).

And I also agree with Tims comment, something to close off the parking lots would be much more effective than anything else. Plenty of other parks will close them off when they are closed. When state parks were closed during the early stages of COVID, the lots were blocked off - it made it simple: If you go around the barrier you're someplace you aren't supposed to be.
 

NJ Gator

Active Member
Dumb question- park is closed to all users? Or just bikes? I think the idea of blocking the lot with signs makes a tone of sense- although the red trail past canal lot would need to be blocked as well. I ask because if hiking is still okay that kinda kills that idea- I think your point of once the car is parked the battle is lost is spot on.
 

clarkenstein

JORBA Money Launderer
JORBA.ORG
I walked white this evening, it was dry where it was high or saw plenty of sun, but in some of the shade or low areas there was mud and snow still. This was probably the worst spot, it was similar on the section of red just before it meets blue.
View attachment 153846

There were no trail closed signs up at the Jaques lot; I stopped by canal lot on the way home & there was a closed sign across the trail entrance there.
Since this is a picture of about 20’ of trail, and it being the worst - is it 70-80% dry everywhere else (if not better) or you are leaving footprints every step of the way and slipping all over the place?

Reason I ask is a few bad spots are one thing vs the majority of the trail being like the bad spots being another.
 

MissJR

not in the mood for your shenanigans
Team MTBNJ Halter's
i see someone went into trail forks and changed the status of all the trails from closed.
 

serviceguy

Well-Known Member
Would it be possible to work out something with the State about the parking lots, somewhat along the lines of 'No Parking when the park is closed, cars will be towed/clamped' ? That would be easier to enforce and the prospect of making some money out of it with tickets, impounding fees etc. could be interesting for the State. You need to hit people where it matters to make a difference, which is usually their wallet.
 

hls811

Member
Would it be possible to work out something with the State about the parking lots, somewhat along the lines of 'No Parking when the park is closed, cars will be towed/clamped' ? That would be easier to enforce and the prospect of making some money out of it with tickets, impounding fees etc. could be interesting for the State. You need to hit people where it matters to make a difference, which is usually their wallet.
Again, it comes back to is it legally closed or just closed because the fine folks who maintain the park don’t want anyone there (and rightfully so). If it’s legally closed then anyone there is trespassing and would be fined accordingly.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
Would it be possible to work out something with the State about the parking lots, somewhat along the lines of 'No Parking when the park is closed, cars will be towed/clamped' ? That would be easier to enforce and the prospect of making some money out of it with tickets, impounding fees etc. could be interesting for the State. You need to hit people where it matters to make a difference, which is usually their wallet.

they can park there for the tow path, fishing - and roadies park there to launch their western jaunts.
painful problem -

easy enough to catch people - just look at the strava segment for "today"
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
Again, it comes back to is it legally closed or just closed because the fine folks who maintain the park don’t want anyone there (and rightfully so). If it’s legally closed then anyone there is trespassing and would be fined accordingly.

enforcement has always been an issue -
Land manager has email. it is on here somewhere.
 

mrod_nj

New Member
People will do what they want there until an official with actual authority steps in and tells them otherwise. I admire what you all do to prevent people from riding and always use this thread/site to inform my decision on riding on any particular day. Unfortunately I'm sure others view those without real law enforcement authority as someone who is just being an annoyance to them and interfering with their right to ride. This past weekend, I was at Round Valley for a hike and saw the state park police there. If Six Mile is a state park then maybe what needs to happen is a collective group needs to lobby to officials to have someone posted there and use the evidence of destroyed trails as a reason why police need to monitor the park. The main reason being that we do not want to lose access here. Once people get ticketed/warned then maybe the word will spread on Facebook and other sites where uninformed users look for guidance on when it is okay to ride. Has anyone tried doing something like that yet?
 

Tim

aka sptimmy43
easy enough to catch people - just look at the strava segment for "today"
Um. Not everyone uses Strava. Beyond that, Strava has privacy controls. I don’t ride 6MR when it’s closed, but if I did I sure as hell wouldn’t make my Strava track public.
enforcement has always been an issue
People will do what they want there until an official with actual authority steps in and tells them otherwise.
Bingo. There are no consequences.

That gets us back to the original question of whether or not the park is legally closed or is it just a grass roots effort by a bunch of conscientious folks to try and protect the trails.
 

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