Joe Buck approves this message!
I’m out guys. Norm doesn’t like me and I can’t change that.
- Thread starter Dave Taylor
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A Potted Plant
Honorary Sod
I think I need to save Dave's ride
Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
Whoa, I’m totally lost. When did @Johnny Utah make overly aggressive posts? I can’t recall reading any that approach that.
As to the Dave question, I don’t think pulling the plug makes sense on either side. I joined in what 2010? I don’t think I posted more that a handful of times the first year or two, mostly because a lot of the threads were, I don’t know, really insider centric I guess.
Moreover, the ‘tone’ was very different then. Maybe that’s why I don’t see things quite the way others do, as now most posts here are tame these days. Again, that is as subjectively viewed by my eyes anyway.
Dave, it’s a new world with communication consisting of short form text... and honestly, it’s hard to discern between humor/sarcasm and malicious posts. I say stick around and just before you hit post, if you know everyone involved....post as is, if you don’t, maybe take a second to re-read the post from a strangers viewpoint.
This in fact what I do. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t... but my conscious is clear.
As to the Dave question, I don’t think pulling the plug makes sense on either side. I joined in what 2010? I don’t think I posted more that a handful of times the first year or two, mostly because a lot of the threads were, I don’t know, really insider centric I guess.
Moreover, the ‘tone’ was very different then. Maybe that’s why I don’t see things quite the way others do, as now most posts here are tame these days. Again, that is as subjectively viewed by my eyes anyway.
Dave, it’s a new world with communication consisting of short form text... and honestly, it’s hard to discern between humor/sarcasm and malicious posts. I say stick around and just before you hit post, if you know everyone involved....post as is, if you don’t, maybe take a second to re-read the post from a strangers viewpoint.
This in fact what I do. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t... but my conscious is clear.
n
So social media is only showing the good side of life (andnif it isn’t, people don’t follow that) and you can only comment positive feedback. So no wonder these 20 somethings entering the workforce cannot deal with feedback, including constructive feedback. It is an immediate, what a dick, asshole, etc. I don’t have the answers, but I observe enough to see social media isnt for everyone, hell, it probably isn’t for most people.
Social media has a lot great attributes but it may have more downsides. So to say someone is hiding by not being on it, really isn’t fair. One of the main things is that people get all nasty when there is something that isnt 100% positive. I get it, haters gonna hate, but it isn’t healthy to not have any other side. Ying-Yang.
So social media is only showing the good side of life (andnif it isn’t, people don’t follow that) and you can only comment positive feedback. So no wonder these 20 somethings entering the workforce cannot deal with feedback, including constructive feedback. It is an immediate, what a dick, asshole, etc. I don’t have the answers, but I observe enough to see social media isnt for everyone, hell, it probably isn’t for most people.
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StayHydrated
Swedish Chef
My $0.02
I think it's easy to overlook what's on @Norm's plate on a daily basis. Think about it. At this snapshot in time (Jan 12 2019), he coordinates the management of ALL OF THIS:
Perusing threads to make sure people are behaving themselves in a way that creates a community to benefit the greatest number of people possible. Providing feedback, positive and constructive (using his own unique "management style") in responding to posts, changing a user name, answering a DM, or the occasional temporary penalty box when someone gets a 2 minute minor for mean words. Almost 5500 users and over 40,000 unique threads. By no means does this mean he should be immune from feedback himself. But I think people lose sight of exactly what he does for this community. That's a pretty gargantuan and thankless task. Show the guy some love occasionally, alright?
Unfortunately, and I don't know what caused it, but I feel like there has been this rising tide of shitposting over the past 12 weeks or so? Is it driven by a shift in peoples' public behavior elsewhere in the world and emboldens them to think it's less bad/more okay to act this way? So, example: maybe I'm a Snowflake Millennial, but the piss and vinegar about people riding indoors makes me uncomfortable and sad. Sure, if you want to be a Belgian Hardman and ride outside when it's 34 degrees F and raining, go for it. That's pretty badass. But it doesn't mean you need to actively disparage (and it's not always teasing, it is at times most definitely disparagement) those that ride inside. You want your own "old school BIYF"? Make it. And someone did, good for them! That's doing something about it, and I encourage that. But if you have a place to post about being a Hardman and still keep going around shitting on other people; that's not the point. This is by no means THE problem, just an easily accessible example of what I mean.
I'm not proposing we sanitize the place. My opinion is that it would definitely hurt things, and people should be free to keep sharing opposite viewpoints on here the way they have. There have been some politically-focused and charged "Off Topic" threads that were allowed to go way further than I personally might have been comfortable letting them go if I were in charge, but I would say that we're all better people for seeing where each other are coming from. That must have taken a lot of patience and discipline. I'd also say that a cast of characters and personalities does make the community interesting and draw people in. It's what pushed me in from lurking to joining and posting. I think Norm does a pretty great job of letting people spew out whatever they want, and letting everyone be themselves. As time goes on, however, the community needs to shape what it wants to be, and there is a lot of change happening that I think we're all aware of.
If you are here, reading or posting, it's probably because you like bicycles. Keeping that in mind, that bicycles are the one thing that ties all 5500 forum members together, I'd like for you to do the following:
Next time you go in the bathroom, take 60 seconds and look in the mirror. Think about the way you interact with people on this forum and how you portray yourself on here. Then, think about what's going on in this little cycling microcosm we all share. Think about freeholders who are being petitioned to open up land that is currently closed to bikes. Think about land managers who have community members encouraging them to ask for more trail maintenance resources. Think about a NICA student who wants to learn more about their local cycling community and interact with others. About someone who just moved to the state and wants to find their local scene. Or maybe someone who wants to make new friends and get out of their comfort zone. Think about the state of flux in the local racing scene, the rise and fall of different/new disciplines, smaller subcommunities that are growing or shrinking. If you feel like the way you're conducting yourself will have the most positive impact possible on this site and the community for which you have expressed care and & concern by being here, then keep on keepin' on. If not, maybe think about working on it.
Whatever you take away from this, just remember that all I'm asking from you is to be nice.
I think it's easy to overlook what's on @Norm's plate on a daily basis. Think about it. At this snapshot in time (Jan 12 2019), he coordinates the management of ALL OF THIS:
Perusing threads to make sure people are behaving themselves in a way that creates a community to benefit the greatest number of people possible. Providing feedback, positive and constructive (using his own unique "management style") in responding to posts, changing a user name, answering a DM, or the occasional temporary penalty box when someone gets a 2 minute minor for mean words. Almost 5500 users and over 40,000 unique threads. By no means does this mean he should be immune from feedback himself. But I think people lose sight of exactly what he does for this community. That's a pretty gargantuan and thankless task. Show the guy some love occasionally, alright?
Unfortunately, and I don't know what caused it, but I feel like there has been this rising tide of shitposting over the past 12 weeks or so? Is it driven by a shift in peoples' public behavior elsewhere in the world and emboldens them to think it's less bad/more okay to act this way? So, example: maybe I'm a Snowflake Millennial, but the piss and vinegar about people riding indoors makes me uncomfortable and sad. Sure, if you want to be a Belgian Hardman and ride outside when it's 34 degrees F and raining, go for it. That's pretty badass. But it doesn't mean you need to actively disparage (and it's not always teasing, it is at times most definitely disparagement) those that ride inside. You want your own "old school BIYF"? Make it. And someone did, good for them! That's doing something about it, and I encourage that. But if you have a place to post about being a Hardman and still keep going around shitting on other people; that's not the point. This is by no means THE problem, just an easily accessible example of what I mean.
I'm not proposing we sanitize the place. My opinion is that it would definitely hurt things, and people should be free to keep sharing opposite viewpoints on here the way they have. There have been some politically-focused and charged "Off Topic" threads that were allowed to go way further than I personally might have been comfortable letting them go if I were in charge, but I would say that we're all better people for seeing where each other are coming from. That must have taken a lot of patience and discipline. I'd also say that a cast of characters and personalities does make the community interesting and draw people in. It's what pushed me in from lurking to joining and posting. I think Norm does a pretty great job of letting people spew out whatever they want, and letting everyone be themselves. As time goes on, however, the community needs to shape what it wants to be, and there is a lot of change happening that I think we're all aware of.
If you are here, reading or posting, it's probably because you like bicycles. Keeping that in mind, that bicycles are the one thing that ties all 5500 forum members together, I'd like for you to do the following:
Next time you go in the bathroom, take 60 seconds and look in the mirror. Think about the way you interact with people on this forum and how you portray yourself on here. Then, think about what's going on in this little cycling microcosm we all share. Think about freeholders who are being petitioned to open up land that is currently closed to bikes. Think about land managers who have community members encouraging them to ask for more trail maintenance resources. Think about a NICA student who wants to learn more about their local cycling community and interact with others. About someone who just moved to the state and wants to find their local scene. Or maybe someone who wants to make new friends and get out of their comfort zone. Think about the state of flux in the local racing scene, the rise and fall of different/new disciplines, smaller subcommunities that are growing or shrinking. If you feel like the way you're conducting yourself will have the most positive impact possible on this site and the community for which you have expressed care and & concern by being here, then keep on keepin' on. If not, maybe think about working on it.
Whatever you take away from this, just remember that all I'm asking from you is to be nice.
mwlikesbikes
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day we’re all assholes
A Potted Plant
Honorary Sod
The Kalmyk
Well-Known Member
My thoughts exactly
i complain about u all the time but he ignores me
couple of things from my POV - cause that is the only one i know....
i like edgy - competitive people are edgy. all good. and it is ok to be opinionated.
defend, do no deny the other side.
here is the thing, when stating an opinion, attack the opinions in opposition. not the people that present them.
I'd expect anyone dishing it, to be able to take it. a little edgy back-n-forth isn't bad. This is howdo we test the limits?
When I exceed them, i realize it and apologize. sent more than one i-screwed-up message.
this is the new world. we don't use the word pussification, the word is demasculinization. And the only reason it
exists is because guys think they should act a certain way. one can be an alpha without being insulting or degrading,
and that doesn't depend on the equipment between the legs or how fast they are.
on my side, i tend to listen to what people are saying, not how they are saying it. that's just me.
(if i poked anyone for "grammar" stuff, i hope i put a smilie, cause i got what was said, but might
have been a solid malapropism)
this site is significantly different than most - we actually meet each other IRL (i know, #boom)
more than likely, going after one person compels others to take sides. Going after their opinion,
fair game.
i like edgy - competitive people are edgy. all good. and it is ok to be opinionated.
defend, do no deny the other side.
here is the thing, when stating an opinion, attack the opinions in opposition. not the people that present them.
I'd expect anyone dishing it, to be able to take it. a little edgy back-n-forth isn't bad. This is how
When I exceed them, i realize it and apologize. sent more than one i-screwed-up message.
this is the new world. we don't use the word pussification, the word is demasculinization. And the only reason it
exists is because guys think they should act a certain way. one can be an alpha without being insulting or degrading,
and that doesn't depend on the equipment between the legs or how fast they are.
on my side, i tend to listen to what people are saying, not how they are saying it. that's just me.
(if i poked anyone for "grammar" stuff, i hope i put a smilie, cause i got what was said, but might
have been a solid malapropism)
this site is significantly different than most - we actually meet each other IRL (i know, #boom)
more than likely, going after one person compels others to take sides. Going after their opinion,
fair game.
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Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
+5 extra credit points for inclusion of polysyllabic words.
Johnny Utah
Well-Known Member
What did I just read? To be honest Pat @fidodie and I say this with all love, I think you have led to some of the falling out of this site. While I think you mean well, you may go too far sometimes with the demasculization. It has taken some (a lot) of the fun away. While it is noble you try to include everyone I think a bi-product has been the isolating and punishing of the sites base audience/participants. And while people may complain to @Norm many who remember me from the site years ago have asked “what the f**** is going on with the site”
While I think you (@fidodie) mean well it tends to be your way or the highway. You may be a bit too invested. Do you have site ownership now? Maybe that would be a different story.
@Norm, all love. Thank you for the kind words. While I do not always see eye to eye with you I respect you and what you have created (and continue to maintain) I also understand we all live different lives outside of the bikes. I can be a douche, but I am dead honest, I will not talk behind anyone’s back (I will say it to your face (and be more than happy to post it here) and am more than willing to throw money, time or sweat labor to whatever this community needs.
Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
- Status