How the hell are we supposed to retire?

rick81721

Lothar
I'm retiring is 5 years, ready or not. Well, I guess if depends on one's definition of ready. Assuming SS will still be around in 5 years then what I get from there plus my pension is really all we need to live on without touching my 401K since my wife will still be working for at least another 10 years before she retires. Yes, there are many arguments for and against start taking SS at 62 but with my situation and the way I see it is every dollar I get from SS is a dollar I can keep in my 401 to keep working for me. History has pretty much proven that the market will grow my 401 much more than my SS if I were to wait until I'm 65 or 67 to collect. Also, when I kick the bucket my SS benefits end. By preserving my 401 at least that can be inherited by my son. There are so many strategies to tackle your investments using complex formulas, historical data, and predictions of the market based on international and domestic economic and political situations that it just creates unnecessary and unhealthy stress. I don't think it is worth sacrificing my mental health to try to squeeze out every dollar possible out of the market. Part of being retired to me is to have as little stress as possible and enjoy whatever activities you want to do so I think I'm just going to stay the course and let whatever happens happen. Of course in order to get to that point you have to do a lot of planning and be conservative and realistic about your assumptions and estimates. The 2 biggest expense I think I'll need to address before retiring are mortgage and healthcare. By the time I retire I should have my mortgage paid off and my job provides the same level of health insurance for me and my family so I got those covered. I don't have car payments and my credit cards are in order and I expect that to remain the same into retirement. I think even if I do have to replace one of my cars before retirement I can swing it without incurring too much debt, even at today's car prices. Oh, I (we) are also planning to move out of NJ and into a tax friendlier state when I retire, most likely Florida (yeah, we know all about Florida. We go there about 3 or 4 times a year so we know what summers and winters are like there). Also Murphy has told me that the mighty kingdom of NJ isn't for me because I think taxes are a thing (sorry for getting political but it is a major factor in our decision to move). So how are we supposed to retire? Plan, manage your expectations, be honest (mostly with yourself), be thorough, and be flexible. I'm not sure how helpfut all this is. Maybe it's just a note to my current and future self to not stress too much about the little things as long as you have the basics and fundamentals down. Now, if I can just manage my biking related spending.

Great post and good luck. Sounds like you have a solid strategy. I'm sure someone will comment on taking SS early - I originally thought I would wait but now that we have been retired for over 5 years - decided to take it last year at 63. Wife started at 62.

PS luckily I had a crystal ball and bought several new bikes right before the covid crunch. Good for awhile now.
 

JerseyPete

Well-Known Member
Yes, there are many arguments for and against start taking SS at 62 but with my situation and the way I see it is every dollar I get from SS is a dollar I can keep in my 401 to keep working for me. History has pretty much proven that the market will grow my 401 much more than my SS if I were to wait until I'm 65 or 67 to collect. Also, when I kick the bucket my SS benefits end. By preserving my 401 at least that can be inherited by my son.
I (we) are also planning to move out of NJ and into a tax friendlier state when I retire, most likely Florida (yeah, we know all about Florida. We go there about 3 or 4 times a year so we know what summers and winters are like there). Also Murphy has told me that the mighty kingdom of NJ isn't for me because I think taxes are a thing (sorry for getting political but it is a major factor in our decision to move).
I've heard this more than once from many people. Best wishes.
 

Fire Lord Jim

Well-Known Member
Any thoughts on fixed annuities?
I don't like them. You can benefit by living past your life expectancy, but can lose if interest rates go up, which seems to be happening.
The annuity is sold by some life insurance company. They will buy equities, and use that investment to pay your annuity. People seek out good, trusted life insurance companies to deal with. However, the company can sell your policy or their entire annuity department to some Chinese company you would never have trusted your annuity to.
I, too, would like a safe, reliable payout. I am sticking with dividend aristocrats, as I think that payout is safer than an annuity, and has upside.
 

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
“The biggest difference between money and time: You always know how much money you have but you never know how much time you have. Enjoy every moment of your life!”

Just read this the other day from a older friend that recently had his heart stop out of nowhere and was literally brought back to life.

Go ride @tonyride ! Totally agree. Low stress and mental health is #1 because it sets the stage for everything else. Especially evident during this pandemic. Now how do I listen to my own advice?! I think I’m in a good mental state but stress is 50/50. Young kids drive me bananas! The nagging, whining, and walking on egg shells like how dare let food touch each other on the same plate.
 
Last edited:

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
VWEAX is paying over 4% with its holdings prices depressed.

I use this rather than a bond fund - fund price is down 3% but worry me not!
 

djm

Well-Known Member
VWEAX is paying over 4% with its holdings prices depressed.

I use this rather than a bond fund - fund price is down 3% but worry me not!
So this is interesting. Even JNJ has more volatility. I guess nothing is fail safe but this admiral fund seems like a decent holding position for $
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
So this is interesting. Even JNJ has more volatility. I guess nothing is fail safe but this admiral fund seems like a decent holding position for $

I like the monthly influx of $$$ -

Using a suggestion from @Santapez and @Fire Lord Jim, I've balanced across accounts, rather than in each account.
This lets me manipulate IRA funds, and leave post-tax alone. The specific way i'm using this fund is in an account with an RMD.
The monthly dividend is more than the distribution, so value is climbing, with the excess being reinvested for cost averaging.
That and I get to ignore it other than 1x per year.
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I like the monthly influx of $$$ -

Using a suggestion from @Santapez and @Fire Lord Jim, I've balanced across accounts, rather than in each account.
This lets me manipulate IRA funds, and leave post-tax alone. The specific way i'm using this fund is in an account with an RMD.
The monthly dividend is more than the distribution, so value is climbing, with the excess being reinvested for cost averaging.
That and I get to ignore it other than 1x per year.
@Fire Lord Jim is anti-funds to a certain extent due to the capital gains distributions during a down market. People bail from the fund so there's now capital gains distributions for those that continue holding the fund.

Bad in a taxable account, not an issue in a non-taxable account.

And take my advise for what it's worth. I don't always practice what I preach, as one thing I tend to do is just completely ignore the accounts and hope there's $$ in there when I retire. Less stressful than looking at them often. But that's also why I just go nearly 100% stock in the retirement accounts and put my hands over my eyes.
 

Fire Lord Jim

Well-Known Member
Ms. Tina only looks at her investments once a year. That way they are only up! She misses the day to day fluctuations and only sees start and end.

Today the S&P 500 is down 1.4% Mostly from Facebook, which makes up 2.4% of the index. If we equally weighted the S&P 500, each stock would be .2% weighted (500 x .2 =100%)
Facebook is down 24% today, and with a weight 12x the mean (2.4%÷.2%=12) it is putting a disproportionate drag on the index.

Note that for Facebook to be overweight in the index, other companies have to be underweight. The diversity you wanted in an index is not as one might expect. You get exposure to 500 stocks but not equal exposure, and more risk than you may have wanted.

SPXEW is an equal weight S&P 500. Each stock @ .2% Equal exposure. Facebook has a much smaller effect on this index.

Screenshot_20220203-113908.png
 

rick81721

Lothar
Good time to refi any mortgage - rates going up. We redid our NJ townhouse (no mortgage here in FL). Not a huge difference but 160 clams a month is better than nothing.
 

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
@qclabrat when would you like me to hold down @Patrick and smack this nonsense outta him? lol I don’t know what made me think of this convo on page 25 but two years later RE gone to the moon and it ain’t coming back. If we don’t take chances in life well then that’s just boring AF. Lesson, life is unpredictable. Swing for the fences.
so picking the right place and having the home appreciate faster than the mortgage interest builds up is a risk. Great if ya pick the right
area, with the current trend is towards "walking into a town" - convenient train station. Where is next? Plainfield? Most home prices are not going up a bunch,
because supply is high in most areas. there are always exceptions.

Short term rentals might be even worse. Consider the clientele. Then throw in seasonal short term where the peak season has to carry the year.

I'll come at it one other way -
If it is such a viable investment strategy, then the prices would automatically adjust to reflect it (the price of the home rises because of the income it can produce)

more than likely it is going to be negative cash flow with some sort of backed-up loss because of depreciation.
Unless there is one making money, and one losing, the loss can't be taken because it is passive (unless you are in the business of real estate rentals,
and there are some new laws this year about taking some of the loss) The loss is taken against the gain when sold. note that paper loss does not make money.

too much stuff has to go right to make any real money for the effort.

Let's run a quick scenario -

purchase a $400k condo in surf city (consider this all in, ready to rent after you purchased at auction, and put in the time/$$ to get it ready)
you pull the equity out and have a $300k mortgage (cause of you had $400k laying around, it could have made you $24k in an income fund
yielding dividends at a preferred tax rate, and reinvested so doubling in 15 years (rule of 72) producing $50k/yr in dividends) - this is an income
fund, not a market fund (traditionally market does better)

The mortgage now looks like $5,000/month cause it isn't your primary home, so you couldn't get the better rate.
It is at the beach, and the insurance is $3,000/yr taxes $5,000, principal, interest. condo assoc fee. so $60k out per
year, for 15 years.

The main income time is 100 days, can you get $600/night clear after the rental co charge, cleaning and linen charge, electric (heat and/or a/c)?
maybe there are a few more nights around holidays, to add income, but it won't be close to that number. Then up-keep, increasing condo fees/taxes.
appreciation on the house, your time.

So it seems good right? You invested $80,000, managed cash flow as well as you could for 15 year, you now have a $500,000+ condo you hope,
and something that generates $60k/year in rental income. less ~$15k in expense. you are hoping you could step away at any time and
cash out somewhere between the $80k and $500k in equity, depending on how far in? see mortgage table for answer - too lazy to generate one.

but the $80k investment would have generated $350/mo, $300 post tax, reinvested. it would have doubled, the cash return would double+,
you had little risk, and didn't have take a chance to get to year 15 where the money really starts, and no unclogging toilets or fixing holes in the walls.

that was a lot. i'll check the math, see if i can turn it into graphs so easier to digest.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
@qclabrat when would you like me to hold down @Patrick and smack this nonsense outta him? lol I don’t know what made me think of this convo on page 25 but two years later RE gone to the moon and it ain’t coming back. If we don’t take chances in life well then that’s just boring AF. Lesson, life is unpredictable. Swing for the fences.

Shore property exploded. Got a friend that dropped more than my example and tore down the house.

And ya can't cherry pick winners. You could have decided commercial real estate was the now and gotten crushed
 
Last edited:

Fire Lord Jim

Well-Known Member
It is hard to invest in real estate and remain diversified. For most of us non-Bezos, we are limited to REITs. At one time, I owned my residence, a rental condo, and a rental townhouse. I was not diversified. I did great. Then the market turned on me. The result was a net loss. What is my point?

We can all look back and pick the investment we could have overloaded up on, which would have made us rich today. A could and a would do not equal a should It's not as easy to pick that investment looking forward. History rolls forward seemingly pre-ordained. We don't fathom all the other outcomes that could have happened. Those who look forward without weighing the other outcomes only succeed by luck. Luck is not a good strategy.

Funding retirement does not require luck. It requires a boring, continual accretion, a forebearance, and diversification so that bad events don't spread wide. Note that diversification also makes sure good events don't spread wide. Diversification is like buying insurance. There are no dependable get rich quick schemes, but plenty of get poor quick ones.
 

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
Totally. Diversify. Well put. I don’t think putting every cent into retirement is a very enjoyable idea either. I’m not saying look back (shoulda woulda coulda) but at the time you just do what you gotta do never know how things will turn out. Gut luck whatever you want to call it, take some chances.
 
Top Bottom