Help with descents

J-Dro

Well-Known Member
Is common in your early years to really trash a bike? My Trance has tons of chips and scratches. Pretty much every tech ride i go on adds a pretty good scar to the frame. I often long for a new frame, and am then reminded how much abuse it would have to take.

Chips and scratches on a mountain bike should be worn like a badge of honor.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
So i got a nice deal on a 70mm Race Face Deus stem. That is 40mm shorter than when i started. I was nervous that the big jump would feel very different and twitchy on my climbs. It feels great. I have been riding my only bike, Trance, for a few years now and had no prior experience to really know how a bike was supposed to feel. I'm even wondering if maybe at 6' if i should have gone with a Med. Anyways, with the shorter cockpit i feel like i'm riding a completely new bike with new abilities. Happy.

Is common in your early years to really trash a bike? My Trance has tons of chips and scratches. Pretty much every tech ride i go on adds a pretty good scar to the frame. I often long for a new frame, and am then reminded how much abuse it would have to take.

On my trance, which was a medium I ran a 100mm stem and it was perfect for me and I am 5'8", so you couldn't probably go even longer.

Yes, it is typical to beat your bikes up more when you are learning, especially if you ride technical trail all the time.
 

elzoller

El Guac-Oh
...
Is common in your early years to really trash a bike? My Trance has tons of chips and scratches. Pretty much every tech ride i go on adds a pretty good scar to the frame. I often long for a new frame, and am then reminded how much abuse it would have to take.

you should see my frames :D

It is a good idea to check for small cracks on the frame once in a while, I don't know how long I rode my old rear triangle with a freaking crack on it.
 

xc62701

Well-Known Member
Def check for the elusive cracks. I just cracked #3 and am in search of a replacement...it happens.
 

idbrian

Crotch Rot
Sorry, one more question about cracks then. If one was to check for cracks where are they most likely to form? For example should i be checking the bottom bracket area more? I know Giant has lifetime warranty on frames, i wonder if that carries over to a pretty banged up frame.
 

elzoller

El Guac-Oh
Sorry, one more question about cracks then. If one was to check for cracks where are they most likely to form? For example should i be checking the bottom bracket area more? I know Giant has lifetime warranty on frames, i wonder if that carries over to a pretty banged up frame.

chain stays & the welds
but remember..
BM1172~Say-No-To-Crack-Posters.jpg
 

don

Well-Known Member
So i got a nice deal on a 70mm Race Face Deus stem. That is 40mm shorter than when i started. I was nervous that the big jump would feel very different and twitchy on my climbs. It feels great. I have been riding my only bike, Trance, for a few years now and had no prior experience to really know how a bike was supposed to feel. I'm even wondering if maybe at 6' if i should have gone with a Med. Anyways, with the shorter cockpit i feel like i'm riding a completely new bike with new abilities. Happy.

Is common in your early years to really trash a bike? My Trance has tons of chips and scratches. Pretty much every tech ride i go on adds a pretty good scar to the frame. I often long for a new frame, and am then reminded how much abuse it would have to take.

Nice - I think a 70mm stem is a very good length for all types of riding. Long enough to get your weight up on climbs but short enough for decents and jumps.

Scratches on aluminum bikes shouldn't be too much of a worry. Watch out for gouging tho and cracks like other have said. If the scratches start to stress you could always just get it powder coated with a couple layers of clear or even stripping all the paint and run it raw.
 

idbrian

Crotch Rot
I think Giant voids warranty when you mess with the paint. Otherwise i love the look of raw. I think some of my scratches could be borderline gouges. With each passing year my damage increases as i try harder stuff.
 

jdog

Shop: Halter's Cycles
Shop Keep
not so much..

Nice - I think a 70mm stem is a very good length for all types of riding. Long enough to get your weight up on climbs but short enough for decents and jumps.

Scratches on aluminum bikes shouldn't be too much of a worry. Watch out for gouging tho and cracks like other have said. If the scratches start to stress you could always just get it powder coated with a couple layers of clear or even stripping all the paint and run it raw.

A 70 mm stem is very very short. Sorry Don but the stem length is NOT suited for all types of riding. It is however good for DH or jumping.

Most companies will overlook other frame damage to cover a specific warranty issue.

The reality with warranty is that your dealer is (or isn't) your advocate in the warranty process. The dealer holds the cards here. If you have the dealer who sold you the bike process the claim, your chances are much better than if you go it alone or with a random shop.

Painting any bike pretty much voids any and all chances of a warranty in the future.

Good luck.
 

don

Well-Known Member
A 70 mm stem is very very short. Sorry Don but the stem length is NOT suited for all types of riding. It is however good for DH or jumping.

Most companies will overlook other frame damage to cover a specific warranty issue.

The reality with warranty is that your dealer is (or isn't) your advocate in the warranty process. The dealer holds the cards here. If you have the dealer who sold you the bike process the claim, your chances are much better than if you go it alone or with a random shop.

Painting any bike pretty much voids any and all chances of a warranty in the future.

Good luck.

I was just going by what I've riden and learned over the years. BITD, I ran those long ass 130mm stems w/ friggen bar ends. On that same bike ('97 Rhygin), I'm now running a 100mm Thomson. Mind you that bike is a pretty stict SS XC build with no jumping going on.

And I think a 50mm stem is spot on for jumping and DH. I'd feel really weird with a 70mm stem on my DJ bike and do swap in a 50mm on my sussy rig if I know I'm hitting drops and stuff.

For a all around trail bike I still think a 70mm stem is a great size. I rode last week (and over the past 5 or so years) with some of the best all around riders I've ever seen up in VT. I noticed years ago they all ran shorter stems, higher rised bars and bunch of spacers between the stem and headset. Ask mergs - those guys kick some ass up and down hill. The shorter stem length doesn't seem to slow them down.

There is also Lee's writeup: http://www.leelikesbikes.com/stem-lengthrise-for-a-trail-bike.html

It's unfortunate about the painting of bikes voiding warranties but I can see why. Prepping and powdercoating could do damage in the wrong hands. The guys at Sinister said they would be fine if I had a local powdercoater do my GRUITR frame. And I've seen Turner still help folks out even with repaints so there are a few companies that will still stand by their product.

Another thing worth mentioning about a repaint is the cost for a proper job. A powder coater will charge about $100+ for a frame. Add the time or cost for a tear down and rebuild, plus stickers and it can get expensive - maybe even more than the frame is worth.

I like having one-off colors and builds myself and don't mind dealing with the issues and actually enjoy the project.
 

hardtale70

She's Gone From Suck to Blow
Shop Keep
Having been on road, DH,DJ, XC whatever, I find I always settle in between 70 and 100mm. Most xc/am bikes come stock w/ too long of a stem IMO................
 

idbrian

Crotch Rot
The 70mm just feels so right. One of the best changes i've made. Can't believe it took me so long to find out about it. That leelikesbikes convinced me before i made the order.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
For a all around trail bike I still think a 70mm stem is a great size. I rode last week (and over the past 5 or so years) with some of the best all around riders I've ever seen up in VT. I noticed years ago they all ran shorter stems, higher rised bars and bunch of spacers between the stem and headset. Ask mergs - those guys kick some ass up and down hill. The shorter stem length doesn't seem to slow them down.

It all comes down to proper bike fit and cockpit preference. A ton of spacers with high rise bars just seems like the bike was set up right from the beginning...getting your stem as close to you headtube as possible makes your whole cockpit stiffer and I find much better for cornering and balance. Especially with long travel bikes where you are already high off the ground. When I swicthed to the rush in the spring, I went from 3/4" of spacers on my trance to no spacers (or maybe 1/8") on the rush. My cornering and over all bike handling improved as a result.
 

idbrian

Crotch Rot
My trance has close to an inch of spacers. This is just what came with the bike along with 110mm stem and riser bars. What changes to the cockpit would happen if i were to remove these spacers? Would spacers stretch you out more in any way? Anything that would help me be able to get more behind the saddle would be peachy.
 

jbogner

NYCMTB: President
JORBA.ORG
My trance has close to an inch of spacers. This is just what came with the bike along with 110mm stem and riser bars. What changes to the cockpit would happen if i were to remove these spacers? Would spacers stretch you out more in any way? Anything that would help me be able to get more behind the saddle would be peachy.

You can experiment easily by removing the stem and putting some of the spacers that are below the stem above the stem instead. Try it out, and if you don't like it, you can always put them back. If you find you like the stem lower, then you can cut down the fork steerer and get rid of the spacers above the stem.

There's no way to make rules about stem length. Bike geometries vary, and what works on one bike may not work on another. I tried 70 and 90mm stems on my Spider 29, and thought I liked them until I put on a 105mm. The bike finally "clicked" with the 105mm. I *wanted* to ride with the shorter stems because I wanted to be further back on the bike, in theory, but it unbalanced the bike.

Similarly, I recently tried putting a 50mm stem on my freeride bike (replacing the 90mm stem on it now). 90mm is enormous for a freeride bike, but since I'm 6-4 and the TT on the bike is only 23.75" (2 inches shorter than my XC bike), it actually makes sense. I couldn't ride the bike with a 50mm stem (way too cramped), and after a couple runs last weekend at Diablo, I went back to the car and put the 90mm stem back on.

Bottom line- try things out and experiment to find what works for you. What other people tell you is right may or may not be right for you.
 

Ian F

Well-Known Member
I think some mass produced bikes come with a lot of spacers because it's faster/easier to cut a batch of forks to fit all frames in a production line and use spacers rather than having to cut them to different lengths and make sure they had the right forks for the right frames.
 

don

Well-Known Member
It all comes down to proper bike fit and cockpit preference. A ton of spacers with high rise bars just seems like the bike was set up right from the beginning...getting your stem as close to you headtube as possible makes your whole cockpit stiffer and I find much better for cornering and balance. Especially with long travel bikes where you are already high off the ground. When I swicthed to the rush in the spring, I went from 3/4" of spacers on my trance to no spacers (or maybe 1/8") on the rush. My cornering and over all bike handling improved as a result.

I do agree with keeping the spacer count down myself. I'm running about 1" worth of spacers on my GRUITR but the steerer tube is the same height as it was when it was on the Transition Bottlerocket the Sinister replaced. With the price of some forks as high as they are it might not be a bad thing to keep the steerer tube a little long just in case. It's one thing I don't get that the VT boys do but their bikes are comfy on the lower back.
 
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