Help with descents

idbrian

Crotch Rot
Thanks for the advise all.

Step 1) I'm going to practice touching my stomach to the seat. I'll try as i ride along flat ground until i get used to it. I haven't really tried making myself get used to it. I also need to get a grasp on whether i am having trouble physically getting back there, due to the bike geometry.

Step 2) If i can't physically get back there i'm going to have to make some sort of physical change to my bike. The position of the seat, or change the length of my stem.

Step 3) I need to focus on my braking habits on descents. I think i tend to use both brakes all the time. I'm going to stop using the front brake entirely while getting used to the descents.

Step 4) Getting a higher travel fork. I was planning on getting an adjustable fork with more travel anyways.
 

MixMastaMM

Team Bulldog Rider
Thanks for the advise all.
Step 3) I need to focus on my braking habits on descents. I think i tend to use both brakes all the time. I'm going to stop using the front brake entirely while getting used to the descents.

I disagree. You will lose control faster by only using the rear brake. I think everyone was trying to say lay off of the brakes, use them sparingly. Most braking power comes from the front brake, not the rear.
 

antgold

Member
I have to agree with Ben on the saddle height too. A lower saddle could help you out for specific drop, but could mess you up for the long haul. Bike fit should also be checked. And as mtbdawgjeff said, staying relaxed in the joints will translate to a smoother more controlled ride. However I would add that you need to stay relaxed with braking, and modulate individually. The death grip will take you down.

Interesting enough, no one mentioned anything about the fear. Fear being what keeps us alive, can also hold us back as well. Some mental technique could help. When I am afraid, I visualize in my head what the skill looks like as when done by a pro. Ben's picture looked good. Then I visualize what it would feel like if I did it with confidence. I visualize every aspect of the skill, behind the saddle, the soft hands, even a smile on my face. The mental preparation helps keep me relaxed as well. I start with a smaller example first and work up. Always keeping these thoughts first in my head before attempting the skill. I may balk a few times, but when I do it, I usually get it right the first or second time.

this is so true !!
when I'm riding alone , many time I backed off places which I'm storming wihen riding in a group - alone I'm thinking too much "what if " and letting the fear to take over
 

Shaggz

A strong 7
More Travel: I have Trance with a Rock Shock Reba. There is a spacer (15-20MM), which LBS is removing for me during maintenance. You may want to check to see if the Duke has one, as well. While it is not a significant increase in travel, I spoke to several Trance owners who said that made difference when descending.
 
Last edited:

idbrian

Crotch Rot
Should i have to rub against the back of the seat to get behind it? Could my own flexibility have something to do with this? Because i'm not very flexible, have never been able to come close to touching my toes.

I lowered my seat quite a bit and still have to squeeze behind the seat.
 

NJ-XC-Justin

KY-DH-Freddy
More Travel: I have Trance with a Rock Shock Reba. There is a spacer (15-20MM), which LBS is removing for me during maintenance. You may want to check to see if the Duke has one, as well. While it is not a significant increase in travel, I spoke to several Trance owners who said that made difference when descending.

You can remove that spacer yourself real easy. I've done it and I'm no mechanic. You don't have to remove the lowers -- you just push the piston rod through with a 5mm allen key. Shops tend to charge $75 or more for this sort of thing.
 

Molasses

Active Member
Getting behind the seat...

I was taught to actually get my butt behind the seat and then pedal around- very, very weird feeling at first but you you get very comfortable being behind the seat. Also, slow speed drills like track stands really build confidence in tight spots- maybe not on descents specifically but rock gardens for sure...
 

don

Well-Known Member
I think some of it is that you just might be used to sitting down in the saddle too much. I've seen some riders just "sit and spin" the whole ride - I also notice many kids make the same mistake. I'm trying to get my daughter to learn to get off the seat. Like others have said the bike should be fine and unless you have a 130mm or longer stem you shouldn't be too far forward.

Practice by slamming your seatpost as low as it will go - or take the seat/seatpost off completely and do a ride around the neighborhood. Go over some curbs or any technical items you can find. Feel how it is to properly learn how to "stand" on the pedals and keeping them (cranks/pedals) level with the terrain.

Another drill while riding in the driveway - learn to stop with just your front brake - yes front. Don't lock them up of course but get a feel for what they will do. A smooth grass hill at the local school would work nicely too. If you can then your getting your body in the right position.

Then, the next time you are at your local trail and are coming on a tech descent that you know, slam the seat before you head down. I agree, you don't need to lower your overall seat height if it is correct but it sounds like you need to get used to riding standing up.

Best of luck - remember the decents are the best part of the ride.
 

sixseven

New Member
I think some of it is that you just might be used to sitting down in the saddle too much. I've seen some riders just "sit and spin" the whole ride - I also notice many kids make the same mistake. I'm trying to get my daughter to learn to get off the seat. Like others have said the bike should be fine and unless you have a 130mm or longer stem you shouldn't be too far forward.

Practice by slamming your seatpost as low as it will go - or take the seat/seatpost off completely and do a ride around the neighborhood. Go over some curbs or any technical items you can find. Feel how it is to properly learn how to "stand" on the pedals and keeping them (cranks/pedals) level with the terrain.

Another drill while riding in the driveway - learn to stop with just your front brake - yes front. Don't lock them up of course but get a feel for what they will do. A smooth grass hill at the local school would work nicely too. If you can then your getting your body in the right position.

Then, the next time you are at your local trail and are coming on a tech descent that you know, slam the seat before you head down. I agree, you don't need to lower your overall seat height if it is correct but it sounds like you need to get used to riding standing up.

Best of luck - remember the decents are the best part of the ride.

+1 on getting off the saddle. Its second nature to remain seated for most people. My GF made huge improvements in here riding confidence once she understood how much more body language you can use with the bike while not seated. Use the bike to aim, use body for balance and adjusting the bikes center of gravity. Its amazing how quickly your confidence and skills will grow once you leave the saddle. You can sit for the fast un-gnarly stuff.
 
D

DANSPANK

Guest
I thought about this quandry last night whilst riding a very dusk-easque ride. From standing on the pedals and over the seat to getting behind the seat really just seemed like pivoting to me - I didn't feel any strecth in my arms or legs. I don't think I'm getting really low behind the seat at all as the downhills at the park I was at were'nt anything to worry about, but nevertheless it seemed a relatively easy body position change. I think you might want to join a group ride and just ask someone to demonstrate the position and then watch you mimmick it.

A couple of other things that came to mind:
-Traction. If you lose traction then you go down. I don't know what pressure you have in your tyres but try dropping it between 2-5lbs (so long as you're not at 20lbs already!).

-Suspension. I'm no whizz at this so everyone feel free to join in but to keep your front tyre in contact with the ground, and thus to maintain control of the direction yo're heading in, your suspension should naturally sit at at least 25% sag. I think mines more like 30%. I also have my rebound set as fast as it goes without feeling like it's pogoing. When the front wheel rolls over a lump and into a hole (like rolling over a log, root, or stone) it then has 25% of your suspension to expand into that hole and maintain traction. Having a fast rebound pushes the wheel into that hole all the more quickly. That's my theory but I'll stand corrected by some of the wrenches on the board...

And then it's just a case of knowing your traction limitations, skill capability and 9and I mean this in a nice way) growing the cojones to just go for it! Good luck, downhills are what we ride for!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

FFT

Gay & Stuffy
Go to Diablo for 1 hour, it's the equivlent of loosing your virginity to a hooker. You will be a decending master.
 

word133

New Member
All your info is helpful. I have the same problem. I just went over the handle bars the other night. I'm a newbie, been riding for 3 months. I think its more nerves then technique. I ride by myself all the time and I tend to think to much when going downhill, not trusting my bike. I went on a group ride one time and that was alot help. Just seeing other people ride and how they handle the downhills was really helpful. I found myself going much faster and not thinking at all. It really helps having someone infront of you. I think I was trying just to keep up so I didn't look like a sloth. So, I would say try to ride with a group. I should take my own advice.
 

idbrian

Crotch Rot
I'm definitely not someone to ride on the saddle too much. If anything i'm out of the saddle too much. On any flat or climbing tech feature i'm out of the saddle. I shift forward well on steep climbs and feel pretty loose on my bike.

As some have said i'm thinking there is a cockpit problem. Which would really be a relief because it would help me understand why every other riding position come so much more natural. Last night i got on my bike and it is seems really difficult to get back there at all, even on flat ground. I can see how the struggle to get back there would make it very difficult for me to be comfortable doing it in a tech section. The fear will be there still, but i just had a feeling that there was something wrong beyond the fear.

So i'm going to start looking into the sizing on my bike. Is the wrench science website the best thing for that or are there other websites that are more helpful? I've put so much money into my bike lately i can't really afford to go get sized up professionally.

All this information you guys had was very helpful. Hopefully others can benefit from this advise.

After i get this down my next task will be getting comfortable with tight downhill right hand turns.
 

idbrian

Crotch Rot
Go to Diablo for 1 hour, it's the equivlent of loosing your virginity to a hooker. You will be a decending master.

That may not be so bad advice. I DH'd once about three months into my MTB career a few years ago. It was at Whistler, and their Beginner and Intermediate trails were an eye opener. It may be time for me to venture out to Diablo and rent a whole bunch of crap. I hope there are some easier routes to take there.
 

hardtale70

She's Gone From Suck to Blow
Shop Keep
Your stem may be a big part. I'm 6' and ride 19"(L) on most brand bikes. I usually have a 90mm or shorter stem to make the bike work in all conditions. Your suspension balance has to also be on. If the rear is to stiff or the front rebound too slowit will gradually pack down on descents or tech at speed. You also have to realize that there is a point where only specific bikes will handle certain things. I have 100s of days at diablo and will walk my xc bike thru stuff occaisionally cause it's just not set up for certain obstacles i come across on trails.
 

MEAN IRISH GUY

Horse-faced space dog
everything the members have been saying here is pretty much all you need to know. may i add though that SCREAMING during the entire decent also helps. its like being on a rollercoaster.:D
 

Kmoodymz3

New Member
This has been a good thread with quality information. I'll give some advice that works for me, and I learned it from a pro DH'er, Gene Hamilton. Sing a really stupid song and smile when you hit the techy stuff. Sing out loud! Really this helps you relax. If you can laugh at yourself all the better! I had the same problem with the fear of techy down hill and while it is really silly to be singing nursery rhymes, or the circus song (the one you think of when the cicrus starts up) on the trail but this works if tensing up is a problem. Now when I ride with others I teach them this and they love it.

Pixychick's advice on visualization is great too. Give it a try. Singing and visualization won't cost you anything.

If you can take a MTB course Gene's is excellent, you will learn so much and he teaches drills that you can practice to continue your improvement.http://www.betterride.net

Riding with others is also a great way to learn, don't be afraid to ask for a demonstration, or to repeat a section.
 

Frank

Sasquatch
That may not be so bad advice. I DH'd once about three months into my MTB career a few years ago. It was at Whistler, and their Beginner and Intermediate trails were an eye opener. It may be time for me to venture out to Diablo and rent a whole bunch of crap. I hope there are some easier routes to take there.

Ageed, FFTyres is spot on. You will leave Diablo with a better skill set just from surviving the day.
 

ChrisG

Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
another thing to think about...

One other element of the equation is the effect of weight transfer on your steering and braking. As you move back on the bike, you unweight the front wheel, which reduces its traction and cuts down on your steering control, as well as the power of the front brake. Adding too much front brake to this situation makes it worse, since a braking wheel tends to have less traction as well, so it doesn't roll as smoothly or want to change direction as willingly.

My point is that you need to be mindful of getting your weight back only as much as the grade and conditions dictate, and no more. Anyone who has ridden enough very steep, loose descents can testify to what happens when you get too far behind the saddle and then need to steer the bike.

Use both brakes, but realize that modulation becomes more vital as the grade steepens and your weight is shifted.
 
Top Bottom