Hartshorne/Huber Conditions

rmap01

Well-Known Member
I just sent an email to the Parks System to inquire about the next TM session.
Hopefully something is coming up.:)

Thanks. Haven't been there in about a month. Must've been from all that rain we were getting a couple of weeks ago. Surprised no one else had commented.
 

wonderturtle

Well-Known Member
It's a real shame how they let things go there. That park is way too heavily used to let the trails get in that condition. I turned around on my ride the other day and didn't go thru that overgrown section of grand tour (for fear of ticks and scratches) as my arms were already cut up having gone thru Rocky point. ...and don't get me started about the erosion along rocky point (several sections need re routing IMHO). It's a shame as hartshorne used to be a flowfest but with the uncorrected erosion the last few years it's a different park (particularly rocky point).

Huber is mostly good and trimmed. However that one HIGHLY eroded hill needs to be abandoned. We rebuilt it in TM last fall. They just did it again this spring... that work lasted barely a week as the VERY first rain storm undid ALL of their work. It's a completely eroded mess that is simply beyond repair at this point!!. How many times are they going to have volunteers rebuild the same g-damn section of trail before they realize it's a waste of time and effort and the section just needs to be re-routed?!?
 
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rmap01

Well-Known Member
It's a real shame how they let things go there. That park is way too heavily used to let the trails get in that condition. I turned around on my ride the other day and didn't go thru that overgrown section of grand tour (for fear of ticks and scratches) as my arms were already cut up having gone thru Rocky point.

I was really surprised it got this bad. At one point on GT we turned back because the foliage was too dense but we found that an alternate trail on GT was just as bad. Thought it would clear but it actually got worse.:( Are these sections of the trails (tight singletrack) just not getting enough use? You'd never know it from the amount of people you see in the lots.

...and don't get me started about the erosion along rocky point (several sections need re routing IMHO). It's a shame as hartshorne used to be a flowfest but with the uncorrected erosion the last few years it's a different park (particularly rocky point).

You're not kidding. Got hung up on one of the rocky descents where the dirt had washed away and had to bail. Wound up snapping off the "upshifter" for my rear gears :cry: ... I guess I'm doing my part keeping my LBS in biz.

Huber is mostly good and trimmed. However that one HIGHLY eroded hill needs to be abandoned. We rebuilt it in TM last fall. They just did it again this spring... that work lasted barely a week as the VERY first rain storm undid ALL of their work. It's a completely eroded mess that is simply beyond repair at this point!!. How many times are they going to have volunteers rebuild the same g-damn section of trail before they realize it's a waste of time and effort and the section just needs to be re-routed?!?

Went to Huber for the first time a few weeks ago. Nice little course. Kinda reminds me of Clayton.
 

wonderturtle

Well-Known Member
I was really surprised it got this bad. At one point on GT we turned back because the foliage was too dense but we found that an alternate trail on GT was just as bad. Thought it would clear but it actually got worse.:( Are these sections of the trails (tight singletrack) just not getting enough use? You'd never know it from the amount of people you see in the lots.

You're not kidding. Got hung up on one of the rocky descents where the dirt had washed away and had to bail. Wound up snapping off the "upshifter" for my rear gears :cry: ... I guess I'm doing my part keeping my LBS in biz.

Went to Huber for the first time a few weeks ago. Nice little course. Kinda reminds me of Clayton.

It's not from under use. It's just very fast growing undergrowth that needs hedge clippers every few weeks to cut back. The system they have of waiting for volunteer-manned TM sessions clearly just doesn't work for those sections. A ranger with a pair of hedge clippers could clear that section in less than one hour. If that doesn't happen we'll have to wait til the TM session. It's a shame

The eroded section of huber is marked "easy" - not moderate or black diamond - but "easy" - which it is clearly not. Which I think presents a liability situation for MCPS - ie, their trails are not meeting the criteria for their designations. Gotta think that would be a slam dunk for a personal injury attorney if someone gets injured in that "easy" trail.

A friend of mine just got a scratched cornea riding in hartshorne as a result of the overgrowth.

It's unacceptable IMHO.

Lastly, agree that huber is a nice park. I do 2/3 of my riding in huber. Clayton is a good comparison. Similar in size and character. But lacks a bit of the "roller coaster " effect that makes Clayton somewhat of a destination

Sorry for the rant but I spend basically all my riding time in those two parks and I have seen them decline VERY quickly the last few years. It pisses me off.

But just to be clear: (1) I am not criticizing the volunteers and (2) I am not criticizing the people at MCPS who coordinate the volunteer efforts - clearly they have a very robust volunteer program.

But it clearly isn't working when a very heavily used park like hartshorne continues to erode, when sections of that heavily used park become so overgrown so as to be unpassable and when the conditions degrade to a point where they are causing scratches, scratched corneas, etc.

They need to figure out a different way of doing things. I know this has been discussed here many times over the years. I don't care. It's clearly not working. Either have the staff maintain the trails properly or allow an appropriate group to do the honors (like the state does with jorba). This in between state ain't working.
 
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SmooveP

Well-Known Member
I noticed on Sunday that part of Rocky Point was trimmed. But the worst sections seem to get no attention during the summer when they need it the most.
 

michael.su

JORBA Board Member/Chapter Leader
JORBA.ORG
I noticed on Sunday that part of Rocky Point was trimmed. But the worst sections seem to get no attention during the summer when they need it the most.

Troof ^

I was there a couple of weeks ago and it was ridiculous. I can only imagine what it looks like now.

I haven't gotten any e-mails from the county about a TM at Hart any time soon...

edit: Iggy is on it. :)
 
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wonderturtle

Well-Known Member
The overgrowth is an easily avoidable nuisance.

But That eroded hilly section of huber pisses me off the most. If they have another TM session we will HAVE to concentrate on rebuilding that section. That will make it 3 times in one year that the section will be rebuilt (it's already 2). Then... Very first storm it will all be washed away.... Again as it does each time.

If that is not the definition of absurd I don't know what is.

My annual huber-hartshorne rant is concluded. Go in peace...
 

ChrisG

Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
I've been riding these parks since 1992, and over the past few years things have really degraded. I wonder, is this a result of fiscal hardship, a lack of concern on the part of MCPS, or both?
 

SmooveP

Well-Known Member
I've been riding these parks since 1992, and over the past few years things have really degraded. I wonder, is this a result of fiscal hardship, a lack of concern on the part of MCPS, or both?

Good question. Back in the day (early to mid 90s) when Wally Tunison was involved, there were more frequent TM days, including a regular weekday evening session in addition to the (ir)regularly scheduled weekend TM days.

Erosion has always been part of the equation and probably always will be. The overgrowth issue seems more recent, and is more annoying to me. I think part of it is some of the trail-clogging species have gotten a real foothold in parts of the park, and only more frequent TM sessions can keep things under control. For a while, there were also a few "rogue" fellers who did some TM in addition to the sanctioned sessions. I haven't seen those guys in a few years.

Since I started riding at Hartshorne in '90, most of the TM work has been done by the volunteers. For whatever reason, the park staff spends very little time on the trails. Which is odd, considering that the trail network is the main asset at the park. The scheduled TM sessions seem to peter out in the heat of summer when they're needed the most. (What, nobody wants to risk heat stroke or tick borne diseases? Wimps.)

One properly equipped person could visit the affected sections once every 2 weeks and make a big dent in the overgrowth. There are really only 2 or 3 small problem areas.

Cheers,
Pat
 

rocknrollgirl

Well-Known Member
Would it cause and issue if "someone" were to ride in with clippers and do some clean up? Not saying that we are going to do that, just asking a hypothetical question.
 

pooriggy

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I did pass along the areas that need pruning at Hartshorne to the Park System.

The next scheduled TM at Hartshorne is August 23rd. To attend TM's you must be a trained trail team member. The Parks System is having a training session on Sept. 20th from 9-12 at Thompson Park.

If you are currently a trained volunteer in the Park System and would like to work on a more frequent basis at Hartshorne, please PM me your name and contact information. I will forward it to the Volunteer Coordinator. More frequent TM sessions may be possible under the supervision of a Park Manager.

To move in a positive direction with this, having a list of 10 people who would show up once or twice a month would be awesome:)
 

rustynuts

Well-Known Member
Chris, sent you a PM.

I love hartshorne, I get as cranky as the next one when the place is overgrown/washed out/eroded. I continue to ride the place as it is my home trail(s) (Huber included).

If 10 of us, myself included could work there on a monthly basis that would be an amazing win for the trail system. I hope this can come to fruition. Please let me know how I can help.

-Jordon
 

SkiBikeClimbGuy

New Member
...However that one HIGHLY eroded hill needs to be abandoned. We rebuilt it in TM last fall. They just did it again this spring... that work lasted barely a week as the VERY first rain storm undid ALL of their work. It's a completely eroded mess that is simply beyond repair at this point!!. How many times are they going to have volunteers rebuild the same g-damn section of trail before they realize it's a waste of time and effort and the section just needs to be re-routed?!?

Agreed. Add me to the list of people interested in TM.

In addition, what's the story with the sand? I've tried searching and can't really find an answer. There's no way it's natural. If it has been placed to slow down mountain bikes, it is effective but dangerous. In addition, it causes riders to go around, widening the trail, and increasing damage / erosion. Isn't there a better alternative? Also, if the parks department is placing it, that seems like a lot of work. Perhaps those resources could be better served creating and maintaining the trails in a more sustainable way?
 

rmap01

Well-Known Member
In addition, what's the story with the sand? I've tried searching and can't really find an answer. There's no way it's natural.

It's really just in a few spots (I believe, for the most part, all on Grand Tour). Others may know better but I'd be surprised if it's not natural. :hmmm: Don't ride Allaire.
 

don

Well-Known Member
Agreed. Add me to the list of people interested in TM.



In addition, what's the story with the sand? I've tried searching and can't really find an answer. There's no way it's natural. If it has been placed to slow down mountain bikes, it is effective but dangerous. In addition, it causes riders to go around, widening the trail, and increasing damage / erosion. Isn't there a better alternative? Also, if the parks department is placing it, that seems like a lot of work. Perhaps those resources could be better served creating and maintaining the trails in a more sustainable way?


The sand is from improperly built/designed trail. It was not placed there - just has been moved by Mother Nature. Look at the grade on either side of many trails at Huber and Hartshorne - then walk to the bottom and see where all the material went to.

For some reason logs are used at Huber and Hartshorne to try and stop it but they just make the water speed up and cause more damage. I can't say I have all the answers to solve the erosion but I would love to try some things out or at least round table some ideas.
 

don

Well-Known Member
But That eroded hilly section of huber pisses me off the most. If they have another TM session we will HAVE to concentrate on rebuilding that section. That will make it 3 times in one year that the section will be rebuilt (it's already 2). Then... Very first storm it will all be washed away.... Again as it does each time.



If that is not the definition of absurd I don't know what is....


I feel real bad as I saw the TM work the 2 times and what happened with the big storms. That section needs to be re-routed as I am sure you know. It has been a mess way too long. Thing is a nice piece of trail there would make a very nice experience for users as that line is in the center of a few other sections of Huber.
 

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