Hartshorne/Huber Conditions

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
We have worked on just one section of Grand Tour so I'm not sure where you are saying there is not a log over in the place or its difficult to not clear everything is due to us. Truth be told Iggy and I put a lot of thought into that trail to keep as much of the classic Hartshorne feel. We kept all the log/water bars which if anyone has worked with me knows I fucking hate those things as they create more headaches than anything and they look like shit.

One thing about eroded trail is that it deposits sand in the low spots. Not just a skim coat but there were sections on lower GT were we removed 6-8" of it. If that's your thing, ok, but I feel the sand deposits take away so much from a trail riding well. And being safe.

2 other factors: Trails that were new rake and ride built and natural are now 20 years old. And the use of the trails on modern bikes have created more of an open style. Lines are burned in now that wouldn't be there back in the 90's when I rode it on a Rhygin with 80mm Judy 26x2.2 tires and 150mm Control Tech stem with narrow bars. I know I ride lines way differently now. A modern bike allows you to carry speed and have way more control than even bikes 5 years ago so a tight corner will open up and a fall line will have some more curves in it. It wasn't Iggy and me dumbing things down but actual trail users taking a natural route. I know of at least 3 sections on the other side of GT alone that that has happened.

PS - on one TM on GT I actually brought back the original trail line - which is more fall line and tighter between the turns where it lays. I've not tried to climb or descend it but it's there on looker's left just before the very rocky section if you are going up it. Larry and I made an organic middle bed to slow down water flow, transplanting some small growth and moving organics in there. It was a pain in the ass on the 90 degree morning he and did it but I wanted to bring that line in as an option.
I just meant In general between huber and harts all logovers are gone. I’m not complaining about what you guys are doing for work more saying that I like tough, eroded climbs, root sections etc. Flow is good too but part of the the water tower climb that was fun was just being. Able to clean it. Hartshorne naturally reroutes itself when trees fall and people ride around them. The trails are way different than 10 years ago when I started riding there. The roots being cleared out are near the lower road crossing on the portland road side.
 

don

Well-Known Member
don, next time you buck up some deadfall, just stack a few to the side so DT has some added side hit fodder. Boom, problem solved! :D

haha - I'm not opposed to building log/skinny/hop options. Believe me I had Trialism and North Shore stuff on VHS back in the late 90's/00's.

Not sure if you guys remember it but there was a really fun tree ride on the top of Rocky Point/Devil's Elbow right at the fork where it could to the Navesink Overlook. I thought I was hot shit back then as I could ride up about hip high and spin off 270. But then Dave Packie came down from VT and pedaled at it fast as he could then pedaled up the tree and did a drop to flat that was over my head like it was nothing.

And one of my favorite squirrel catchers was at Catty Woods around 10 years ago. For their warmup line they had a 2 ft tall log that you had to bunnyhop over and into a landing to get into the line. Not super tough but my back muscles were sore by the end of the day. I've always liked that and wonder if that design could be incorporated into an mtb trail.

IDK what the MCPS rules are but it would be interesting to do some wood work/log ride stuff in the future.
 

don

Well-Known Member
A new name is needed for the water tower climb. Seems like it's a DH run now. Did it 4 times today. Different than b4, but still plenty of fun.

Ah - I was there with the dogs hiking today and looking at tire tracks and just putting eyes on the trail - wonder if we crossed paths?
 

don

Well-Known Member
I just meant In general between huber and harts all logovers are gone. I’m not complaining about what you guys are doing for work more saying that I like tough, eroded climbs, root sections etc. Flow is good too but part of the the water tower climb that was fun was just being. Able to clean it. Hartshorne naturally reroutes itself when trees fall and people ride around them. The trails are way different than 10 years ago when I started riding there. The roots being cleared out are near the lower road crossing on the portland road side.

Yeah - I remember there being more logs to hop over but that might be more of a general cleaning by MCPS. I cannot think of any TM work that I've done that has taken them out. To be honest I can actually see the hikers being more apt to complain about them and wanting them removed. Just curious do you like when there are smaller logs/branches stuffed on either side of log overs or do you like just to bunnyhop them?

I have to correct you on the natural reroutes when tree falls and people ride around them. That certainly happens but it happens a lot more without trees falling. I counted at least 6 re-routes (albeit small and on the other side of the fireroad of where we have been working) on GT that were just a more natural line and it wasn't a tree fall that did it.
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
Yeah - I remember there being more logs to hop over but that might be more of a general cleaning by MCPS. I cannot think of any TM work that I've done that has taken them out. To be honest I can actually see the hikers being more apt to complain about them and wanting them removed. Just curious do you like when there are smaller logs/branches stuffed on either side of log overs or do you like just to bunnyhop them?

I have to correct you on the natural reroutes when tree falls and people ride around them. That certainly happens but it happens a lot more without trees falling. I counted at least 6 re-routes (albeit small and on the other side of the fireroad of where we have been working) on GT that were just a more natural line and it wasn't a tree fall that did it.
I prefer if a tree falls that’s small enough to hop then leave it. I like to wheel tap them and don’t like when they are dumbed down with small branches.

Look at the top of the rooty climb(off Hartshorne road-is that Laurel ridge?) trees came down a couple times and the section is completely different but still fun. The sand at the bottom of that climb is super fun too. I don’t know. I like a challenge, not easy to ride trails. Something wrong with that?
 

Bike N Gear

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Ah - I was there with the dogs hiking today and looking at tire tracks and just putting eyes on the trail - wonder if we crossed paths?
I passed one guy with 3 dogs as I was nearing the alligator and one guy with a dog who was walking up the water tower climb. Every other person I passed, and there were a lot, were female.
 

Karate Monkey

Well-Known Member
Look at the top of the rooty climb(off Hartshorne road-is that Laurel ridge?) trees came down a couple times and the section is completely different but still fun. The sand at the bottom of that climb is super fun too. I don’t know. I like a challenge, not easy to ride trails. Something wrong with that?

Along the river overlook/next to Tan Vat? Yes, challenge is nice, But (with a capital "B") I think the intent behind the work that @pooriggy is undertaking is to have a challenging climb that doesn't punish failure. That trail, blown out as it is, doesn't pigeon hole you into attacking a 12" obstacle uphill...unless you want to. The water tower, outside of trying to wall ride uphill, didn't allow that before (remembering: the crater immediately before the rocks, and immediately after); there was no chance of 'progression' because there was nothing as punishing as those spots anywhere else in the park.

I'm not trying to convince you you're wrong, hell, I agree. There is something intensely satisfying about cleaning a chunked out climb. I go out of my way to not hit the cleaned out lines going up--there are several spots in the park that have 8-10"+ steps up. I can clean many of them, but rarely all of them in any ride. If I rode just the buff clean lines up all the time, I'd be bored too.
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
Along the river overlook/next to Tan Vat? Yes, challenge is nice, But (with a capital "B") I think the intent behind the work that @pooriggy is undertaking is to have a challenging climb that doesn't punish failure. That trail, blown out as it is, doesn't pigeon hole you into attacking a 12" obstacle uphill...unless you want to. The water tower, outside of trying to wall ride uphill, didn't allow that before (remembering: the crater immediately before the rocks, and immediately after); there was no chance of 'progression' because there was nothing as punishing as those spots anywhere else in the park.

I'm not trying to convince you you're wrong, hell, I agree. There is something intensely satisfying about cleaning a chunked out climb. I go out of my way to not hit the cleaned out lines going up--there are several spots in the park that have 8-10"+ steps up. I can clean many of them, but rarely all of them in any ride. If I rode just the buff clean lines up all the time, I'd be bored too.
I mean, there is no part of Hartshorne that is like ringwood. At first I thought the “flow” down the water tower was dangerous as it launched you into a bad section. I’ve been riding there close to ten years and am yet to see someone fall over on a climb and get hurt. Devil’s elbow is the only one maybe, possibly questionable. The root section in Rocky point had a proper ride around but now it’s gone anyways. I do like some of the stuff done on water tower. The water bars they put in on the stepped climb that starts at the buttermilk lot are dangerous when going down.
 

rottin'

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I remember there being more logs to hop over but that might be more of a general cleaning by MCPS. I cannot think of any TM work that I've done that has taken them out.
I recall stories/pictures of the chainsaw guy a few years ago cutting out a ton of logovers in the park. I believe it was a rogue trail user performing work on his own without MCPS sanctioning.
 

Karate Monkey

Well-Known Member
I mean, there is no part of Hartshorne that is like ringwood. At first I thought the “flow” down the water tower was dangerous as it launched you into a bad section. I’ve been riding there close to ten years and am yet to see someone fall over on a climb and get hurt. Devil’s elbow is the only one maybe, possibly questionable. The root section in Rocky point had a proper ride around but now it’s gone anyways. I do like some of the stuff done on water tower. The water bars they put in on the stepped climb that starts at the buttermilk lot are dangerous when going down.

Well, I didn't want to be crass, but racking your nuts on the top tube is as much of a failure as falling over.

$0.02
 

Karate Monkey

Well-Known Member
Rode this afternoon--the mud-ening is upon us. 2 days after a minor rain event, the park is still soggy in some spots. The good news is that the work that @pooriggy has been doing with volunteers is holding up excellently.

Did not ride lower Grand Tour or Rocky Point, but did all of Huber--there is a tree down about pelvis-high between the main lot and Claypit Run on Valley View -- almost exactly where the square is on the official map.
 

Mitch

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Rode up and down the Water Tower tonite with master @pooriggy. It was spectacular! Just a great Flow trail that right now is the best Trail in the park. Thanks guys for all you work on this.
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don

Well-Known Member
Rode up and down the Water Tower tonite with master @pooriggy. It was spectacular! Just a great Flow trail that right now is the best Trail in the park. Thanks guys for all you work on this.
wait - was that you with Iggy at Huber? I should have said hello but needed to get going (kid pickup).

Glad you liked the North GT section - it should only be getting better!
 

Mitch

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
wait - was that you with Iggy at Huber? I should have said hello but needed to get going (kid pickup).

Glad you liked the North GT section - it should only be getting better!
Sorry, that was my bad. I rode up the 50ft to my car and then went back and you guys jumped into truck. Then Iggy said it was you and I felt bad that I didn't stop. All good, keep up the great work, your crew is really making a difference in the park.
 
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