Hard tail vs full squish

carvegybe

carvegybe

Well-Known Member
I'm sure this has been debated many times. In context of riding in the North East and assuming no focus on DH/enduro riding, I'm starting to think HT is the better bet. On any technical descents I would be out of the saddle anyway, so a dropper post would be a must. Sightly fatter, tubless tires could provide some suspension. I'm a one-bike guy and need to think about retiring my 34 lbs FS bike next year.

On the FS side I've been looking at the Ripley V4 and Pivot 429, but then I got onto an old specialized HT weighing just over 20 lbs. Wow. I find it hard to convince myself to haul all that FS weight around. The climbing punch of a HT is just so appealing.

Thoughts would be welcome.

Tx
 
I think it depends more on your personal riding style than it does on the terrain around here. If climbing/pedaling efficiency is your priority, then go hard tail, if you like efficiency but still want to be able to comfortably plow some descents, go w/ a shorter travel FS like the ones you mentioned. i think maybe just rethink the one bike mentality!
 
carvegybe said:
I'm sure this has been debated many times. In context of riding in the North East and assuming no focus on DH/enduro riding, I'm starting to think HT is the better bet. On any technical descents I would be out of the saddle anyway, so a dropper post would be a must. Sightly fatter, tubless tires could provide some suspension. I'm a one-bike guy and need to think about retiring my 34 lbs FS bike next year.

On the FS side I've been looking at the Ripley V4 and Pivot 429, but then I got onto an old specialized HT weighing just over 20 lbs. Wow. I find it hard to convince myself to haul all that FS weight around. The climbing punch of a HT is just so appealing.

Thoughts would be welcome.

Tx
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I think you ride the same places I do. Take a few laps at Baldpate on Copper East, down to the creek on a HT and then on a FS. Half of it on a HT is rattle your fillings out type stuff where on a FS, you can just pump through everything. I rode a steel hardtail 10 years and it was great, but the small chunk on copper east and the connector trail is much more fun on a FS. Climbing is better on HT, but that is because of the modern FS geometry, not so much the lack of movement a HT has. So if you are using a slacker HardTail, you aren't going to climb as fast. Personally, I could careless about climbing fast on a mtb. That being said, it took awhile to get used to climbing slower. If you are looking at weight, lose 10 lbs of body weight.

Also take into consideration that a FS corners differently and often better because the rear suspension helps keep the wheel planted here a HT might slide out.

What about water company, much more fun on an FS. Can it be ridden on a HT, ofcourse.
 
stb222 said:
I think you ride the same places I do. Take a few laps at Baldpate on Copper East, down to the creek on a HT and then on a FS. Half of it on a HT is rattle your fillings out type stuff where on a FS, you can just pump through everything. I rode a steel hardtail 10 years and it was great, but the small chunk on copper east and the connector trail is much more fun on a FS. Climbing is better on HT, but that is because of the modern FS geometry, not so much the lack of movement a HT has. So if you are using a slacker HardTail, you aren't going to climb as fast. Personally, I could careless about climbing fast on a mtb. That being said, it took awhile to get used to climbing slower. If you are looking at weight, lose 10 lbs of body weight.

Also take into consideration that a FS corners differently and often better because the rear suspension helps keep the wheel planted here a HT might slide out.

What about water company, much more fun on an FS. Can it be ridden on a HT, ofcourse.
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Helpful. Thank you.
 
I'd say it definitely depends on where you ride and how. 6 Mile Run is great on a hardtail. Ditto for Kingdom Trails or Raystown Lake. Rougher trails can be fun too, but it depends on how you ride. Not necessarily better or worse experience, but different.
 
stb222 said:
I think you ride the same places I do. Take a few laps at Baldpate on Copper East, down to the creek on a HT and then on a FS. Half of it on a HT is rattle your fillings out type stuff where on a FS, you can just pump through everything. I rode a steel hardtail 10 years and it was great, but the small chunk on copper east and the connector trail is much more fun on a FS. Climbing is better on HT, but that is because of the modern FS geometry, not so much the lack of movement a HT has. So if you are using a slacker HardTail, you aren't going to climb as fast. Personally, I could careless about climbing fast on a mtb. That being said, it took awhile to get used to climbing slower. If you are looking at weight, lose 10 lbs of body weight.

Also take into consideration that a FS corners differently and often better because the rear suspension helps keep the wheel planted here a HT might slide out.

What about water company, much more fun on an FS. Can it be ridden on a HT, ofcourse.
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I'll ride everything I'm capable of but don't discount trail selection. If something really sucks like alpine at creak I'm not going to ride it


Your bike decides what trails suck and what are fun
 
On the one-bike thing. My bike has a stand in my office. During the typical work day I tend to use my breaks to scan the bike for issues. I check the drivetrain, correct sag, check chain stretch, etc - all while taking a mental break from work. This means my bike is always dialed and I rarely have mechanicals. I don't think I have enough attention span or office space to keep 2 bikes in top shape. And once they go to the garage, the won't be looked after. But I could be wrong. It would be nice to have both a HT and a FS.

Ok, so let's say I decided to have two bikes. I have a FS now so I would get a HT. At which price point do you guys and gals think does the law of diminishing returns start to apply to HTs in terms of incremental improvements in weight and performance? Let's assume I don't go with "low value, high prestige" brands but also don't go with any direct consumer brands. Does anyone with experience on multiple recently produced HTs have any recommendations?

Riding style - I rotate pedals to move forward. I get out of the saddle but still not often enough. I avoid applying power when pointing down, because I don't like hospitals so I tend to test myself more when pointing the bike up or when on flat, flowy trails. I do enjoy technical climbs on roots. I do not like large boulder stuff like Sourlands although am starting to get more comfortable at Water Company (which together with Baldpate is probably my favorite place to ride).

Again thanks for the input.
 
carvegybe said:
On the one-bike thing. My bike has a stand in my office. During the typical work day I tend to use my breaks to scan the bike for issues. I check the drivetrain, correct sag, check chain stretch, etc - all while taking a mental break from work. This means my bike is always dialed and I rarely have mechanicals. I don't think I have enough attention span or office space to keep 2 bikes in top shape. And once they go to the garage, the won't be looked after. But I could be wrong. It would be nice to have both a HT and a FS.

Ok, so let's say I decided to have two bikes. I have a FS now so I would get a HT. At which price point do you guys and gals think does the law of diminishing returns start to apply to HTs in terms of incremental improvements in weight and performance? Let's assume I don't go with "low value, high prestige" brands but also don't go with any direct consumer brands. Does anyone with experience on multiple recently produced HTs have any recommendations?

Riding style - I rotate pedals to move forward. I get out of the saddle but still not often enough. I avoid applying power when pointing down, because I don't like hospitals so I tend to test myself more when pointing the bike up or when on flat, flowy trails. I do enjoy technical climbs on roots. I do not like large boulder stuff like Sourlands although am starting to get more comfortable at Water Company (which together with Baldpate is probably my favorite place to ride).

Again thanks for the input.
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I don’t have much experience with modern hardtails but did some research recently as I wanted a hardtail 29er as an addition to my stable. My primary mountain bike is a Hightower. Completed my hardtail build today, an Ibis DV9. It’s a rocket on flowy cross country trails but reserve my opinion about rougher terrain after I get a chance to try it out at Ringwood and High Mountain. I have friends that ride single speeds as well as geared hardtails in all types of terrain. Guess it depends on the individuals riding style and preference. DV9 67.4 head angle is a nice compromise between cross county and trail. 120 34 Fox Factory Stepcaster is stable but plush. I am going to change out the Minion for a Recon as it’s more fitting for this bike. Good luck in your search. So many choices.
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Thanks Victor. I saw that on Strava - part of the reason for my original post, to be honest. It would be great to get your thoughts once you take it on more challenging terrain, e.g. Ringwood.
 
carvegybe said:
Thanks Victor. I saw that on Strava - part of the reason for my original post, to be honest. It would be great to get your thoughts once you take it on more challenging terrain, e.g. Ringwood.
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Definitely. Who doesn’t love talking about their bikes and themselves. And feel free to give me a Strava kudos😁. Now I’m feeling slightly self centered(more than usual), lol. I was going to build a single speed but changed my mind last minute as I enjoy the advantage of gears too much. I know a couple of racers that ride High Mountain every week and are faster on their hardtails than their FS(they have the KOMs and Trophies to prove it). The same two guys(Steve M and Anthony A) ride regularly from the the top of Skyline Drive to Sterling and back on their hardtails-35 miles. Granted they have to be much more physically active on their hardtails to accomplish that. It is definitely easier to be a little lazy(relatively speaking) on a full squish. I am also contemplating longer distance rides and linking multi parks. That would include the need to ride the road which is obviously much more efficient on a lightweight hardtail. How many bike packers ride full squish?😁
 
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3 mtbs, all 29, all "pre modern geo". Rigid steel SS, geared 100mm carbon HT 1x11, carbon FS 100mm 1x11. SS gets the most usage. HT sees some tech, FS is for rocks.
 
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