H2H 2011 Proposed Sched and Payout Schedule

Pokgirl said:
Go back to 35+ rather than 40+ or even just an open Cat 2 women's class. There are arguments against an open class, but that's how it is in cross, the fields are big, and no one is crying if they don't podium.

Had a long discussion with hubby about moving up. I am in the same dilemma as last year. I like racing 2 hours. I don't have time for training for, and frankly not willing, to race for 3 hours. There is such a decrepancy between the average woman vs. man finish time and ability. When women do the same number of laps as men, it is just unmanageable for me. The crickets would be chirping when I finish. And having long laps doesn't help this situation. Isn't it true that USA Cycling has changed for shorter laps for the pros? Shorter laps would make it possible for less laps for women than men and all would finish in the 2-2.5 hour range.

Every venue is different, which makes some sort of statement impossible, but it should be possible to say weeks before the race: the lap is x distance, it would take the average cat 1 male racer to do y min laps and average cat 1 woman racer to do z min laps, and if the target is 2 hour races for the average person, then calculate the number of laps from there.

I also suggested that Cat 1 and Cat 2 women should just compete against each other in one class. There are always Cat 2's that would do well in Cat 1 and Cat 1's that could fit well into Cat 2, so there's overlap anyway. But I know this was late night ridiculous blather.

I have lots to say about my frustration with moving up to Cat 1, what's held me back, etc. But I won't go on.
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I agree. The small numbers are one of the reasons that I did not do very many races last year. Well that and the whole triathlon thing.:D Most of the race venues are 2-3 hours from home for me, to drive that far and only have 1 or 2 other racers in the class is disappointing.

I understand completely what you are saying. I hear ya!
 
rocknrollgirl said:
I agree. The small numbers are one of the reasons that I did not do very many races last year. Well that and the whole triathlon thing.:D Most of the race venues are 2-3 hours from home for me, to drive that far and only have 1 or 2 other racers in the class is disappointing.

I understand completely what you are saying. I hear ya!
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Would you rather have a single open women's class, no age?
 
I think the age split should go back to 35+. Most women were in the 19-39 range anyway. I would be ok with an open class in Cat 2. It would make the field bigger and everyone would have someone to race with. I wouldn't be too motivated to only race against one or two other people.

I think there should still be a split between Cat 1 & 2. There are Cat 2's who would probably do well in Cat 1, but it wouldn't be fair to the racer who just moved up from Cat 3 to be competing against Cat 1's. We want people to move up when they're ready. Part of making it to Cat 1 would be the time and effort put into it (I would imagine).

We need to do whatever is going to make the most people happy to keep the most amount of women in racing :D
 
Norm said:
Would you rather have a single open women's class, no age?
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Sure, why not. I am almost 10 years older than most of the other women in the class anyway, so what difference does it make. I race against 20 and 30 year olds all the time anyway. That way, when I get my ass kicked, I can blame it on old age.:D

I betcha some of those girls at the cross race on Saturday where 20 years younger. Right?

What I really want is to have enough people racing to have a fair 5 year age group like in triathlon. Since that is not going to happen in my lifetime....

Why not all race together.
 
I wouldnt take all day if the Cat 3,2,1 start times were moved closer together. A few people may get passed by the next Cat. There would be a need for creativity with the start finish area setup and scoring.
 
Norm said:
Would you rather have a single open women's class, no age?
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One open class would probably be better. For Cat 1, changing the 35+ to the 40+ age bracket made a difference. There seemed to be two evenly attended classes for them this year. In Cat 2, it left the 40+ group almost non-existent. An open class, albeit Cat 1 or Cat 2 still leaves a pretty small class compared to any men's class.

One should consider that the bulk of the Cat 2 women riders this year were between the ages of 35-40. Changing it back to 35+ will leave the 19-34 class small. But who knows, new people surface every year. For me personally, after next year I'll move to the 40+ age group but I'll still be comparing my times to all the younger girls.


Pokgirl said:
I have lots to say about my frustration with moving up to Cat 1, what's held me back, etc. But I won't go on.
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On the topic of moving up, I can see your frustrations. For you personally, there is just not enough competition in the 40+ age group to have a true gauge of time. I just did a quick look through and I think a 35 yr old beat the 40+ group by a minimum of 9 mins in every race (sometimes up to a 40mins difference). She should move up and I'm sure she gladly is, but 9 min is a HUGE difference, we are not talking seconds here. If we still had the 35+ class this year, no one would be expecting you to move up.
 
If you're in a sparsely populated 40+ class, you are absolutely allowed under USAC rules to enter in the younger 19-29 class. Masters racers are allowed to race in younger classes, the only exception being that those over 19 may not race down into the juniors classes.


In general, I think these changes are a very positive step for the H2H series, and they're absolutely in line with the intentions of the USAC mtb board of trustees regarding how local and regional races should be organized. Nice work, H2H promoters!
 
Great feedback ladies. It is always a juggling act to try to make racing for women the best experience possible. I think we all want racing to be fun and challenging.

For 2011 Cat 1 will be racing as one open group, but will be offered series jersey for age groups based on points in the open group. I recommended that be done for Cat 2 as well but it was voted by the H2H promoters to be for Cat 1 only next year. I am guessing that this is because there would need to be more thought put into where to place juniors in this scenario. I am hoping that if the Cat 1 is accepted well, then perhaps the following year all classes may be the same. I am glad to hear your feedback and as long as I am allowed to offer ideas to the promoters, I will try to interpret them best as possible for all women.

I understand the difficulty in figuring when to move up. For what it's worth, here is my advice:

If you are a Cat 3 and feel ready to try another lap, I say, go for it. Cat 2 is a great place to be and you will most likely love the challenge.

Going to Cat 1 can be a huge jump for some, and the last thing I want to see, is more women quit racing. My recommendation is to combine all women's times after a race and see where you fit in. Yes, I agree this would be easier, if there were no age classes. If you are consistently finishing in top 3 of 10 or more overall female racers in your cat, you may be ready to move up. If you are always the first overall women, you should most likely move up. FYI: Tara Walhart has already taken an upgrade to Cat 1.

Also, there is no rule that says you can not race in the 19-39 if you are over 40. Just make sure you let them know at registration.

If there is anymore feedback from the ladies, please post it up here or pm me. I would like to hear from as many of you as possible. Thanks.
 
I don't know if anyone is listening, but I thought I'd suggest an overall season team competition like they do in CX.
 
The team format will help racers stay in the series even if they may be out of contention for individual honors. I like it a lot.

Now say for instance 4 people aren't on a team or the same team for that matter and want to get in on the action. I understand the team format is still in the works...just wondering
 
mr.chainsaw said:
Now say for instance 4 people aren't on a team or the same team for that matter and want to get in on the action. I understand the team format is still in the works...just wondering
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You mean kinda like you and your NAMBLA buddies doing a team? Yeah I guess that would make some sense.
 
mr.chainsaw said:
The team format will help racers stay in the series even if they may be out of contention for individual honors. I like it a lot.

Now say for instance 4 people aren't on a team or the same team for that matter and want to get in on the action. I understand the team format is still in the works...just wondering
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My vision is to keep the team competition friendly for both small and large teams, and to include non usacycling sanctioned teams. Teams will need to register with the series early in the season and members can only be on one team. I will try to get the rules dialed in and published by end of January, if I can. Glad to hear there is some interest.
 
That is a cool idea. I guess you would kind of need to have catagories for teams though given the sizes like you mention. I wonder how you would do that. Maybe for small teams you use like the best 4 results per event and larger teams best 10 results per event? I am not suggesting this but rather just trying to understand how you do it.
 
This may not be a popular suggestion, but I think you need to exclude the classes that have fewer than (say) 5 people. I've seen kids classes in the past with 2 people, both on the same team. It would probably render the competition meaningless if you have a team that gets a guaranteed 1st and 2nd every race. Just trying to keep it more interesting for more teams.
 
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