For fitness sake

[serviceguy]

The only word I could make sense of in this entire thread was ‘donut’.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Ride. Fall off. Walk. Run. Move and lift things. Jump. Avoid riding lawnmowers.

 

[1speed]

My overall fitness is nowhere near what it was when I was racing, partly because my back has become a problem I need to deal with every day and partly because, after 20+ years of doing endurance races pretty much all over the country, I've kind of been there/done that for most of the things I wanted to do race-wise and to continue doing it would be repetitive at this point. And unfortunately, unless I can address my back issues, the stuff I haven't done yet is probably off the table (I was definitely planning on a Tour Divide attempt for a while, but I'm just not sure that'll be an option given that each morning I have to test whether or not my legs can even support me before I get out of bed now.) And I'm okay with that, but I so still want to be able to enjoy the rides I can do, so I try to eat right, do body weight and balance exercises, and lately I've been trying to double my daily water intake. I've never really been about structured workouts -- kind of like @jimvreeland I always just figured the best thing for the kind of riding I want to do is to just get out and ride a lot. That is a little harder now because some days I just can't get my back to cooperate, but luckily that isn't all that frequent. If there is one thing I would say has had the greatest impact on fitness for me, it'd be the fact that I can't really do yoga anymore. Between the pandemic shutting down the studio, and the progression of my back issue (which is not muscular so I can't really fix it with yoga), I really haven't been able to take any classes and I definitely notice that, especially in my legs. I've been trying to replace some of it with foam rolling, but it's not really the same. Yoga was always really hard for me (apparently, I come from a gene pool with the general flexibility of concrete blocks), but the payoff was undeniable. Not having that has forced me to reckon with all the niggling aches and pains you might expect from a life spent riding a SS in the rocky northeast without really having a consistent method of keeping them at bay.

And, yeah, at some point I'm going to actually wake up to the fact that my choice to only ride SS for more than decade of 150+ mile weeks off-road is largely responsible for all of this, but that's kind of moot right now because (1) it's still fun to do and (2) even if I wanted to get a FS geared bike, it's going to be a while before I could get it anyway. But even if I do that, I'm not sure if I'll be all that concerned with regaining race fitness anytime soon. I think net of net, I'm willing to give up that sharp end fitness for good if it means I can become more well-rounded in other things - I've never been a "natural athlete", so if I wanted to be good at something, it had to have all my focus. So I'd give up other activities to work on being a better rider, and if there is one thing the last year forced me to do, it's reconsider that approach. It's not a dramatic epiphany or anything like that - it's just a realization that it's time to make room for other things as well. I'll still enjoy throwing down with my friends who like to ride hard, but I don't think I'm going to be as focused on being the one throwing punches in those rides any time soon.

 

[sundaydoug]

Yoga. 20 minutes first thing in the morning and another 20 minutes before I go to bed. Has done wonders for my riding (and general well-being).

 

[Steve Vai]

One of the key things that happened for me some decade ago, was realizing it's significantly more enjoyable to race the kind of events that match how I naturally want to ride my bike. That way all of the things I want to be doing anyway help me be better at what I'm doing. It's a lifestyle, and that makes it super easy to stay on track.

 

[Pearl]

I really wanted to find a coach that would prescribe me a training plan for BWR (not something. custom at a stupid expensive monthly rate), but came up empty. They moved the date to August, so maybe I can go down that path again, but I had a goal event in May that I wanted to target, an 80 mile gravel race, so I figured I'd try and do something instead of JRA into the event.

February 28th I did an FTP test inside and hit 298w, (283w FTP) without any real workouts, JRAing since January, which is where I thought it would be. Felt good but nothing over the top.

I've been watching Dylan Johnsons videos for a while and really liked the approach he took with the training, and he made it sound "easy" to do. So I figured, lets see what its all about. I bought his 10 Hour Gravel Build plan on TrainingPeaks for $80 and figured for 12 weeks, it was rather cheap. I should have wrote a recap on that whole experience, but I was around 90-95% on target with all the workouts, only cutting the time during the week when I couldn't swing it, but I hit all the longer weekend workouts/endurance rides 100%. I was doing numbers I didn't think were possible during that (3x45 minutes at tempo with a 5 minute recovery). I never felt tired or overwhelmed, so I really questioned how much I was going to gain.

Mandi also wanted to be more veggie focused, which helped me drop even more weight (Down to 145-147 range daily) which has helped as well. That along with nailing the on bike nutrition (in love with the SIS gels, drink mix and recovery stuff) really helped me fuel my longer training rides as well as races. I feel that I havefelt stronger than I have in the past because of this alone.

Two weeks before my event, April 23rd, I did an outdoor test at 310w, (295w).

Following that plan I "gained" 12 watts. I'm not sure if I really gained anything because the test I did before the plan was indoors, while the last one was outdoors. So that may have some variable to it. What I did notice is that all the efforts below felt super comfortable, never really "stressed".

In the past I would do endurance events and just literally fall on my face at some point. Last year I did a TrainerRoad medium volume plan for this event. I limped to the line during the 50 mile version of this event, which was fine, I still did great. I felt pretty cooked doing them too.

For the 80 mile one this year, I was anxious to see what my legs would do. I had a mechanical lap one and had to bridge back up with another strong dude after the first lap. Going into the last lap (~25 mile laps) I was 6th or 7th. Eventually people in front of me started to crack and fade, while I was able to stay steady and pick up other racers, then drop them. I felt I could easily moderate my effort and was in control of my pace the whole race. I could lay down power when I wanted, kick the pace up when I wanted, etc. So the plan may not have had massive FTP gains, but it really fattened my power curve. The plan never really focused on super high end road race type efforts, more the diesel engine you need to build for gravel racing.

I was able to pass 3-4 people on the last lap, some really strong dudes, and secure 3rd place.

I was pretty stoked with my fitness as well as the result. Granted, not everything can be results based, but feeling well for almost 5 full hours on some gnarly terrain was I'm pretty happy with.

I think I've fallen into that camp of without significantly increasing my hours on the bike, I won't see any more FTP gains. During that training block I did no more than 12 hours a week, which seemed manageable with Mondays and Fridays off.

As much as I don't want to recycle the plan and try it again for BWR since it worked so well. Worried that I won't gain any more fitness from it this go around since my body is used to that work load... but if that is what I can produce with 12 hours a week, I'm pretty stoked about it.

 

[goldsbar]

I don't really "train," more like ride harder some days, easier others. 4-5 days/week riding plus two days lifting. Like beer and ice cream as much as riding. Did see a good pickup when I did a Time Crunched Cyclist plan a couple of summers ago. Not sure that the FTP pickup was that dramatic, but I was able to do a lot more pushes without getting tired. Many more "matches to burn" if that makes sense. Felt in noticeably better shape.

What I have seen is that structured training works. I'd rather kill myself, but the people I've seen on Strava that hit up Trainer Road plans indoors seem to do very well. I know I could get myself into good shape in the winter with limited time via Zwift racing (sort of a once/week one hour-ish uneven FTP effort) and one other semi-hard day. The Trainer Road structured stuff seems to take that concept to another level, but it's not really riding a bike in my book.

 

[Norm]

Where are you getting your information from?

I have pretty much read most of the common books on the subject. Friel, Coggan, LeMond, and a host of others I have long forgotten. I also frequented the training forums way back when but that was at a point when I was ramping up in knowledge, then trying to find any hidden secrets of knowledge that might help.

Since that time I have come to the conclusion that at the core, it boils down to this:

1. Ride your bike a bunch
2. See point #1
3. If you want to race, do workouts that are like your race
4. It helps a real lot if you are not fat

A lot of these plans & workouts are really meant to keep you on your bike. Do you think doing 10 seconds at 120 rpm every 5 minutes for 2 hours does anything? Yes it does, it keeps you occupied to ride for 2 hours. Coaches will admit this off the record. The idea is for the client to ride 2 hours. The 10 second bursts are a diversion.

These days I do not get any new information from anything. I am probably too old to learn new tricks.

 

[Pearl]

A lot of these plans & workouts are really meant to keep you on your bike. Do you think doing 10 seconds at 120 rpm every 5 minutes for 2 hours does anything? Yes it does, it keeps you occupied to ride for 2 hours. Coaches will admit this off the record. The idea is for the client to ride 2 hours. The 10 second bursts are a diversion.

This is what I learned with the plan I did.

Almost every week was setup as:
Monday - Off
Tuesday - 60-90m workout
Weds - 60m endurance
Thursday - 60-120m endurance
Friday - Off
Saturday - Longer workout, 1.5-3hr
Sunday - Longer Endurance, 3+hr

I was nervous it wasn't going to work, but it kept me fresh for the workouts, and I enjoyed not having to do a workout on those endurance days.

The TrainerRoad medium plan had workouts all the damn time. I really had a nuclear meltdown because of it, and I'm unsure if I actually had gains from it.

Somehow, even with cycling, less is more.

 

[Norm]

Somehow, even with cycling, less is more.

It depends. The standard/classic is similar to what you posted:

Mon: Off
Tue: 5 minutes intervals
Wed: FTP building (8, 10, 15, 20 minute intervals)
Thu: L3/SST
Fri: Off
Sat: Shorter/harder
Sun: Log day

You can just substitute the following:

* On Tuesday swap that out for a local A shop ride
* Thursday sort of the same as Tuesday just don't contest every testosterone move - sit in all ride
* Saturday ride your MTB
* Sunday join a long shop ride on the road

Wednesday would then be the only solo structured effort. The rest could be labelled as fun.

 

[Cassinonorth]

I was 1 month out from IMFL 70.3 when COVID hit and shut everything down. Pools closed, I stopped my training plan and bought my first mtb. I had the realization I enjoy the dirt more, hate pools but still like running so I was transitioning to a off road duathlon type training plan when I strained my back last week. Following a training plan without a power meter on the bike (and in the woods where workouts are...less than consistent) has been a challenge but I felt like I was gaining back my fitness a bit.

At the end of the day if I never get back to 3.5+ w/kG I'm cool with it. I'm having way more fun hiking and riding mtb than I ever did in triathlon.

 

[ebarker9]

I try to do the following:

-Follow one of the TrainerRoad plans in the winter. Main goal is to enjoy the early season riding more than I would if I came in completely untrained. Plus, looking at the numbers is kind of fun. Also take an attitude of "as long as I'm doing something, it's better than nothing and it's winter so...who cares"
-In the spring I usually regret not strength training. Getting out and riding is an easy one...just go ride. Strength training requires more planning and I'm never successful at that. I do think it would be helpful, especially for DH riding, as I'm somehow a wonderful combination of "stiff as a board noodle". Have to prioritize this.
-In season riding is mostly whatever feels like the most fun at any given time. I also seem to benefit primarily from just getting a lot of hours in, although I try to do "hard" efforts when I'm relatively well recovered. I like climbing so I try to do road rides that mix in some of the harder local options and use those as a bit of a test.

 

[jShort]

The TrainerRoad medium plan had workouts all the damn time. I really had a nuclear meltdown because of it, and I'm unsure if I actually had gains from it.

yep. 5 days of workouts in the medium plan. And it’s all hard except for the Wednesday ride. Not hard as in, I won’t make it, but hard as in if I keep doing this I’m going to pop. Which I think we messaged about anyway.

I ended up on the low volume plan which is literally only 3.5 hours a week and with that and getting in the woods 2 days a week I still think it’s too much. 3.5 hours a week of trainer intervals is a lot apparently.

They added those polarized plans which are 2 days of intervals and 2 days of volume (I’m simplifying) but over the summer I’ll try one of them out.

It’s not all bad though. Somehow those numbers make the time go and I’m able to be consistent so something is working. I just need to find the right balance.

And for someone whose time is very limited (like me) this is the best way.

 

[Cassinonorth]

The TrainerRoad medium plan had workouts all the damn time. I really had a nuclear meltdown because of it, and I'm unsure if I actually had gains from it.

Somehow, even with cycling, less is more.

They're decent with refunding you for plans you don't like. I think I've done that 2-3x now...added it, realized they wanted 15 hour weeks and noped the f out.

 

[Pearl]

I wouldn’t say I didn’t like it or the service and I had descent fitness from it, but at times it made me dread getting on the bike

 

[Pearl]

yep. 5 days of workouts in the medium plan. And it’s all hard except for the Wednesday ride. Not hard as in, I won’t make it, but hard as in if I keep doing this I’m going to pop. Which I think we messaged about anyway.

I ended up on the low volume plan which is literally only 3.5 hours a week and with that and getting in the woods 2 days a week I still think it’s too much. 3.5 hours a week of trainer intervals is a lot apparently.

They added those polarized plans which are 2 days of intervals and 2 days of volume (I’m simplifying) but over the summer I’ll try one of them out.

It’s not all bad though. Somehow those numbers make the time go and I’m able to be consistent so something is working. I just need to find the right balance.

And for someone whose time is very limited (like me) this is the best way.

Like you said earlier, you can run the low volume plan and put in fun rides all the other days and not cook yourself, I think thats a big plus if you know your body and how you react to the workload/recover

That guy Claudio on youtube that lives by me does the high volume plan and has only been riding for a handful of years, and he's burnt out a couple of times already just this year... kind of hard to watch someone dig themselves into the hole like that over and over again...

 

[Norm]

and he's burnt out a couple of times already just this year.

The word "burnout" is thrown around left & right. Usually it means "got tired." It's ok to get tired and to take a few days off. In fact there's no way to know how far you can push yourself unless you push yourself to failure.

Usually when people burnout for real, they are toast for months and they pretty much lack motivation to ride for a long, long time.

 

[Cassinonorth]

The word "burnout" is thrown around left & right. Usually it means "got tired." It's ok to get tired and to take a few days off. In fact there's no way to know how far you can push yourself unless you push yourself to failure.

Usually when people burnout for real, they are toast for months and they pretty much lack motivation to ride for a long, long time.

Could refer to mental burnout as well. Taking time off from structure training is good in multiple ways.

 

[Pearl]

i guess i consider burning out, throwing too many coals on the fire that it just cant handle it. trying to fit 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag, typa thing

 

[jShort]

Usually when people burnout for real, they are toast for months and they pretty much lack motivation to ride for a long, long time.

I think the official term is overtrained. Like when you keep pushing and pushing and get worse and worse. Yea, that takes months to recover from if you ever do recover from it.