E-bikes are a thing

[Captain Brainstorm]

My opinion is that where the culture embraces the bicycle/2 wheel transportation, E bikes are more popular. In the US using a bike for transportation is looked down upon, like taking a bus, however in Europe bikes are viewed differntely, with no stigma and more a part of there culture. California may see more E bikes because they are always at the forefront of going green, even if batteries are not as green as people think, the perception is that they are saving the planet.

What most of us on this website are using bikes for is recreation, and we make up a relatively small percentage of the population. On the wknds we go into the woods to ride bikes but we are a minority compared to fellow citizens. Other countries use bikes more for recreation and transportation, ebike or accoustic, and again I believe that's because it's more a part of there culture.

This graph shows the number of cars to motorcycles/ebikes/bikes/scooters(the graph says motorcycles but it includes all bikes). Americans seem to love cars, and the folks that drive them don't have much respect for those on 2 wheels.
View attachment 117152

Having lived in Europe for a couple of years, it’s an apple’s to T-bone steak comparison, for a few fundamental reasons. Bikes were (and still are in most places) a fundamental form of transportation vs. recreational, like here in the US. The distances are way smaller. The distances between major cities in a country, and even between countries, is much, much smaller. Even the suburbs are closer. As a result, it was much easier to develop effective public transportation between them all. Most places, in most European countries, are within a 30min. bus/car ride of a major city. The train/bus combo can take you just about everywhere.

Then there’s the economic reality. Cars are very expensive. That GTI, 3-series, or A4 costs 2-3x as much in its country of origin because they are taxed so heavily. Same with the gas/diesel. The cities predate cars by 500-1000 years, so parking is either unavailable or $$$$. Fact is, most European countries don’t want their citizens to have cars and make it financially difficult to have one vs. in the US where even the poor have cars. All the families that I knew had one car, and it got used primarily during holiday season in July/August to get them to the Spanish or Portuguese coast.

The US is huge in comparison. Its logistically impossible to have a train/bus connection to every single place outside of 100mile radius of a major city. You would literally be crossing a train track every quarter of a mile, thus, car culture has been huge since the 50s because cars allowed you the freedom to move between these big spaces. I think that we also tend to forget how huge the spaces are between our coasts.

Not surprised at all that e-bikes are more popular in Europe, also not surprised that it’s taking so long to get more popular there also. One thing that most people don’t realize is that most commuting bikes in Europe are shitty, generic purpose-built for the task. Reason for that is petty crime is off the charts (although San Francisco comes damn close here). If it ain’t bolted to the ground, it’s gone in minutes. It’s easy to park your cheap, generic bike in a sea of cheap, generic bikes. Where are you going to put your 1000-2000 Euro e-bike?

 

[thegock]

About 8 or 10 years ago, I rode an early big brand road ebike on the road. It was fun and a bit expensive at around $2,000.

2.5 years ago I went to a destination park with 10 other guys. Two of those attending couldn't have hung at all given the amount of climbing, but ebikes made covering the trails for a weekend possible.

Over the last 40 years, I have been at clients' offices in Manhattan regularly, but not constantly. This makes it easier to see changes that occur slowly over time (e.g. the number of people consuming decriminalized substances on the street has exploded there in the last five years.) 30 years ago food delivery guys were on foot. 10 years ago they were all on bikes. 3 years ago, many of those were on ebikes. Now, I realized this week that when I saw a guy on an acoustic bike delivering food, that he was the singular exception. (What did he do wrong?) I would guess that there are 10,000 guys delivering food in Manhattan.

I also thought that those bikes don't cost anywhere near $8,000.

I ride my bikes in large part for the workout and don't see an ebike anywhere in my immediate future, but I am 65 in a couple of weeks so things may change over time. But, I hope not.

 

[jdog]

Thought I’d show what I’ve been using the ebike for primarily for the last few years.

With a BOB trailer attached I can carry 4-6 hand tools and a chainsaw.

I can get in and out quickly and after three hrs of digging the assistance is well received.

 

[ryderX]

I’ve ridden a few and they are definitely a blast though I don’t see myself ever owning one. If it ever gets to the point that I can’t pedal a bike I’ll assume I also won’t be able to hoist a 50lb bike up onto a roof rack. I’ll probably just revert back to the pastimes of my youth and start snorting coke again and playing punk rock from a wheelchair.
“ Now get off of my oxygen tube and get the hell out of my room”

 

[MannyL358]

Thought I’d show what I’ve been using the ebike for primarily for the last few years.

With a BOB trailer attached I can carry 4-6 hand tools and a chainsaw.

I can get in and out quickly and after three hrs of digging the assistance is well received.

View attachment 117312

That's a sweet looking setup J ...love it!

 

[Monkey Soup]

The root cause of everything here is that mountain bikes (pedal bikes) have gotten too good. The industry has finally delivered efficient and light long-travel bikes that can hold together for years. I remember a time when full suspension bikes succumbed to loose pivots or broken frames inside of a year, and pedaled like pogo -ticks. Bikes that are as good as they are today suck if you're trying to sell a low volume product in a niche industry. So you do you drive year over year sales in a sport that isn't exactly exploding? How are you supposed to drive year over year sales growth when your product can now last many seasons? You giveth back long travel efficient bikes for short-travel efficient bikes, because you are now over-biked son, and its gotten to "easy". Then theres the changing geometry, standards, wheel sizes, blah, blah, blah. Then they go and create an entire new segment that no one ever asked for, voila, e-bikes!

 

[mwlikesbikes]

^What he said, plus what Yogurt said...

 

[goldsbar]

The root cause of everything here is that mountain bikes (pedal bikes) have gotten too good.

And road bikes are even worse. Some aero gains that really only benefit the top 1%. More comfy ride with wider tires...hmm, just like the old steel bikes that became out of vogue in the early 90s.

 

[jdog]

The root cause of everything here is that mountain bikes (pedal bikes) have gotten too good. The industry has finally delivered efficient and light long-travel bikes that can hold together for years. I remember a time when full suspension bikes succumbed to loose pivots or broken frames inside of a year, and pedaled like pogo -ticks. Bikes that are as good as they are today suck if you're trying to sell a low volume product in a niche industry. So you do you drive year over year sales in a sport that isn't exactly exploding? How are you supposed to drive year over year sales growth when your product can now last many seasons? You giveth back long travel efficient bikes for short-travel efficient bikes, because you are now over-biked son, and its gotten to "easy". Then theres the changing geometry, standards, wheel sizes, blah, blah, blah. Then they go and create an entire new segment that no one ever asked for, voila, e-bikes!

Bikes are so good now, but I’ll counter that in a decade they will be better yet. I don’t think technology has tapered off.

off-road ebikes are super slow to gain traction locally for reasons that few in the industry can understand. In many markets they are 30% or more of all bikes sold and higher yet for city bikes.


I posted this poll to gauge if the demand is growing for this segment. I know I see an ebike in the woods on average every other ride I go on. I have yet to see locally a group of 4-5 riders all on ebikes here. I saw this in Cali in November and I’m betting it’s not far off here as well. As soon as two guys (or girls) out of a riding click get ebikes, that dynamic is different and I’ll argue, super fun.

Legality still looms overhead and I just heard (rumor) that in Michigan they are so anti ebikes that authorities are now confiscating ebikes on a regular basis.

That said I still think that avid riders should get an hour or more of saddle time on singletracknon an ebike before they make a final judgement call

We now have two ebike demos and I’m sure other shops will do the same this year.

Brands like giant are so sure about ebikes that they are pursuing moto shops in markets where bike shops won’t sell them.

It’s a weird time for sure.

 

[Patrick]

So the future is basically Ebikes and Zwift? I see a ton of chatter on the Internet from people not wanting to ride the road anymore, whether Ebike or not. I know a couple of people at work that do 95%+ of their "riding" and "running" on a trainer/treadmill. They still spend $5-$10k on a bike so they can do one triathlon per year.

Not sure Ebikes are going to get more people on the trails. They're still dirty and buggy and you will crash eventually. Adding power and a battery certainly won't make maintenance cheaper. Just don't see Ebikes solving any bike industry problems in the long run.

indoor training is way more efficient in terms of hitting numbers, and dealing with the time crunch we are all under.
Problem is all this developed power and the inability to keep the bike on the road when a turn comes....
There is also a social and gaming aspect to zwift - pick the one that motivates you.
Nothing wrong with buying speed! Especially if it is that 100 mile ride wedged between a 2 mile swim and a marathon.....
(in a race they just paid $900 to enter, after being wait listed for 3 years)

I'm not sure e-bike is a great fit for the NJ group. Crap is spread out, there is no dedicated bike infrastructure to "run to the store"
or ride to the park, and a general view that bikes are just in the way or ridden by kids, and those who lost their license.
the mentality is more 'get in the car to go somewhere to do something' - isn't the same in other places, where getting there would be
part of the adventure..

 

[a.s.]

The root cause of everything here... pogo -ticks.

No wonder we all need E-bikes. It's almost impossible to outrun these buggers!

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

Bikes are so good now, but I’ll counter that in a decade they will be better yet. I don’t think technology has tapered off.

off-road ebikes are super slow to gain traction locally for reasons that few in the industry can understand. In many markets they are 30% or more of all bikes sold and higher yet for city bikes.


I posted this poll to gauge if the demand is growing for this segment. I know I see an ebike in the woods on average every other ride I go on. I have yet to see locally a group of 4-5 riders all on ebikes here. I saw this in Cali in November and I’m betting it’s not far off here as well. As soon as two guys (or girls) out of a riding click get ebikes, that dynamic is different and I’ll argue, super fun.

Legality still looms overhead and I just heard (rumor) that in Michigan they are so anti ebikes that authorities are now confiscating ebikes on a regular basis.

That said I still think that avid riders should get an hour or more of saddle time on singletracknon an ebike before they make a final judgement call

We now have two ebike demos and I’m sure other shops will do the same this year.

Brands like giant are so sure about ebikes that they are pursuing moto shops in markets where bike shops won’t sell them.

It’s a weird time for sure.

In a decade or so suspension technology will make bikes better, and maybe wireliess shit, which I can take or leave.

Despite you shop guys trying to pimp e-bikes so hard, at the end of the day, its a heavy bike with a pedaling aid, and that in and of itself goes contrary to many peoples personal philosophy on why they ride. I think you know this, but hey, you need to move bikes too. I'll make a fishing analogy. E-bikes are like trout fishing in a stocked stream vs. a stream with only wild trout. Sure its fun to catch 10-15 fish out of a stocked stream, because catching is fun, but its really instant gratification. The wild trout are more challenging to catch, prettier, fight much harder, and that makes the experience more rewarding. As a result we appreciate the experience much more, value the resource, and it keeps us coming back for more.

 

[jdog]

In a decade or so suspension technology will make bikes better, and maybe wireliess shit, which I can take or leave.

Despite you shop guys trying to pimp e-bikes so hard, at the end of the day, its a heavy bike with a pedaling aid, and that in and of itself goes contrary to many peoples personal philosophy on why they ride. I think you know this, but hey, you need to move bikes too. I'll make a fishing analogy. E-bikes are like trout fishing in a stocked stream vs. a stream with only wild trout. Sure its fun to catch 10-15 fish out of a stocked stream, because catching is fun, but its really instant gratification. The wild trout are more challenging to catch, prettier, fight much harder, and that makes the experience more rewarding. As a result we appreciate the experience much more, value the resource, and it keeps us coming back for more.

We are seeing pressure from our vendors to stock them for sure. You will see a few new ones come to market in the near term that might surprise a lot of people. As much as it might surprise you, I've actually fought to NOT sell these for the most part. I know that likely does not sound authentic, but consider that e-bikes are not legal to ride on the trails I have been building for over a decade,

I have a few friends who are almost riding ebikes exclusively already. I am already on my third one and I just went on my first ebike group ride this fall. Before that I really thought it was cheating and counter productive to my fitness. I used my ebikes in the past for kid hauling with a Weeho Igo and trail building with a boib trailer. I rarely used my prior ebikes for recreational rides.

I also am a moto guy and while ebike rides are fun, they don't even begin to activate that part of my brain that is so satisfied with throttle twisting.

These things are out there. They are now a part of our culture and as much as many would rather they not be

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

We are seeing pressure from our vendors to stock them for sure. You will see a few new ones come to market in the near term that might surprise a lot of people. As much as it might surprise you, I've actually fought to NOT sell these for the most part. I know that likely does not sound authentic, but consider that e-bikes are not legal to ride on the trails I have been building for over a decade,

I have a few friends who are almost riding ebikes exclusively already. I am already on my third one and I just went on my first ebike group ride this fall. Before that I really thought it was cheating and counter productive to my fitness. I used my ebikes in the past for kid hauling with a Weeho Igo and trail building with a boib trailer. I rarely used my prior ebikes for recreational rides.

I also am a moto guy and while ebike rides are fun, they don't even begin to activate that part of my brain that is so satisfied with throttle twisting.

These things are out there. They are now a part of our culture and as much as many would rather they not be

Exactly right there, your vendor is pressuring you to stock them, and I would imagine that they have some leverage there. Its not like people were looking for this innovation, and the industry responded. I blame the bike industry more than the consumer on this one.

Different strokes for different folks, I get it. At the end of the day, for me, what is an e-bike doing for me other than helping me up a climb? Yes, I've ridden one on the trail, and climbs were the only place where the motor was a "benefit". Everywhere else, the weight of the bike was a negative, it didn't materially improve my ride. One of the reasons I ride is for strength and fitness, so I'm not looking for help climbing. I'm also not looking to get my ride over with faster either, getting into my own head-space for a couple of hours is the objective. I also ride alone 95% of the time, so if the 5% of folks I ride with were to get e-bikes, I'd tell them don't wait up for me.

 

[The Kalmyk]

Whatever!!!!

If you want to ride an ebike. Do it. Just don’t be the person trying to influence others. Thats when it gets annoying.

 

[JimN]

One of the reasons I ride is for strength and fitness, so I'm not looking for help climbing. I'm also not looking to get my ride over with faster either, getting into my own head-space for a couple of hours is the objective. I also ride alone 95% of the time, so if the 5% of folks I ride with were to get e-bikes, I'd tell them don't wait up for me.

You're obviously not the target audience.

 

[a.s.]

I think maybe we should ....

...this thread. We have more important things to worry about. Like pogo ticks! ???

 

[Monkey Soup]

I think maybe we should ....

View attachment 117439
...this thread. We have more important things to worry about. Like pogo ticks! ???

Its not getting offensive or personal, so why should it be locked?

 

[pooriggy]

Its not like people were looking for this innovation, and the industry responded.

Were people looking for the internet?

I believe in capitalism. Build, market, sell whatever you want, provided it's legal. Ultimately the consumer will dictate wether products, goods or services survive.

 

[The Kalmyk]

Ultimately the consumer will dictate wether products, goods or services survive.

Dude, Edward Bernays would roll over in his grave of he read that??