E-bikes are a thing

[T-Van]

The hardest ride I’ve done in the last year was with an all ebike group. This was by far the deepest pool of talent on bikes that I could hang with. The ebike made that possible. We all had the same bike and the antics I saw that day were unforgettable.

The dynamic of an all ebike bike group is a bit more like a group moto ride than a bike ride.

I’ve never had so much fun climbing in my life

Perhaps you might see some familiar faces.



I’ve enjoyed the back and fourth in this thread and we may find it interesting a decade from now (2030!) to look back on we were thinking..

The bike industry is putting all (or most) of its eggs for future development in ebikes.

Our corner of the world is frankly was off the back on ebikes. I spoke to a shop in Cali that sold over 250, off road ebikes last year.

I don’t have a strong agenda here and I’m all about everyone picking their own poison to ride what they like.

I do think these will become more commonplace, legal or not.

Great point, the dynamic of the ride changes a lot when everyone is on Ebikes. In fact, everyone having motor assist is a great way to level the field and make it more about skills and confidence. There are two ways to look at ebikes, as a supplement to fill in what you are lacking due to age, injury or lack of fitness etc... or as a machine to take riding to the next level.
I think ebikes allow a bigger spread of abilities to enjoy riding together. Less feeling like youre gonna hold eveyone up if you cant hang.

 

[goldsbar]

So the future is basically Ebikes and Zwift? I see a ton of chatter on the Internet from people not wanting to ride the road anymore, whether Ebike or not. I know a couple of people at work that do 95%+ of their "riding" and "running" on a trainer/treadmill. They still spend $5-$10k on a bike so they can do one triathlon per year.

Not sure Ebikes are going to get more people on the trails. They're still dirty and buggy and you will crash eventually. Adding power and a battery certainly won't make maintenance cheaper. Just don't see Ebikes solving any bike industry problems in the long run.

 

[T-Van]

As a cancer survivor, I think that you're situation very clearly justifies your choice of riding an e-MTB. I think this is the perfect use for the e-MTB, keeping those us who love to ride on the trail when poor health conspires to keep us off. I just question a perfectly healthy persons choice of riding an e-MTB. Its not a big-dick contest, most of us were weak when we first started, but got stronger. If you're healthy, whats gives you the greater feeling of accomplishment; doing a 20-mile ride under your own power or with an electric motor? Everyone can live their "best life", just don't try to sell me that the work out is just as good, or you're working on your bike handling skills, etc. You're doing it because it makes the climbs easier, shortens the time it takes to get to the good stuff (the descents). Nothing to argue then really.

Nobody should have to feel justified to ride whatever they want. Does someone need to feel justified to ride an $8000 enduro bike if their friends are on entry level hardtails? I happen to be one of those "healthy" people who choose to ride an ebike sometimes. Sure Ive have issues that I didnt have when I was 20 but I didnt buy an ebike to compensate. I happened to demo one just for the hell of it and I had so much fun I needed to have one. Does that justify my decision? I really feel that those who have issues with anyone riding an ebike are the ones in a big dick contest. I dont ride mine to beat your time, I dont ride it to impress anyone and I sure as hell dont need to justify it to anybody.
Getting out on the trails and enjoying yourself should be the only accomplishment that matters. How you choose to do it is up to you. Its good to have choices.

 

[Monkey Soup]

Youre kinda missing my point about it not being much easier. Its only easier if you want it to be, Ive done easy rides in boost mode letting the motor do most of the work and Ive done 40mi rides in the lowest power mode with me doing most of the work. Thats whats great about ebikes, you have a choice of how hard you want to work. If you ride full on as fast as you can on an ebike, its just as much of a workout. What I'm saying is if your fitness is your only limiting factor, its just like riding anything else. Have you ever ridden moto or enduro? Ive done rides on a 300 two stroke that were physically tougher than any MTB ride Ive ever done. It shouldnt be, but we are idiots who go looking to ride the hardest trails we can find. Adding a motor, to me just means I can ride faster or ride more challenging trails. Either way I normally push myself to the limit.

If you think for a second that only practice and experience has made you faster over the years, I challenge you to get on a 20yo bike and go ride your normal loop. Wear a good helmet, thers a reason "going over the bars" used to be a thing. Bicycles used to try to kill us.
Not sure how long youve been riding but I started in 1991 on a fully rigid GT with 1.9" tires, cantilever brakes, mega long stem, narrow bars and actual toe clips, the stirrup kind. Ive been here for all the advancements in the sport and can say beyond doubt that there is no comparison between those early bikes and what we ride now. Most gravel bikes are probably more capable these days.
I will guarantee that theres a bigger time gap between an old hardtail and modern trailbike than there is a modern trail bike and ebike. (ok, maybe not on long climbs) I would love to actully test this if I could get my hands on an old school bike without having to buy it.

Oh, and "acoustic bike" is easier to use than non ebike even if it sounds douchey. lol

No, practice and experience have made me better. I ride the same trails today that I rode 25yrs ago. Shit, the trails today are actually easier than the washer out hiking trails they were 25yrs ago. I sometimes take my 25yr old rigid bike out for shits and giggles, especially in the shitty conditions this time of year, and I’m still alive. As far as justification goes, your the one who wrote the 10000 word paragraph earlier in this thread, not me. So who’s the one here justifying?

 

[T-Van]

No, practice and experience have made me better. I ride the same trails today that I rode 25yrs ago. Shit, the trails today are actually easier than the washer out hiking trails they were 25yrs ago. I sometimes take my 25yr old rigid bike out for shits and giggles, especially in the shitty conditions this time of year, and I’m still alive. As far as justification goes, your the one who wrote the 10000 word paragraph earlier in this thread, not me. So who’s the one here justifying?

I also ride a lot of the same trails I used to and you’re crazy if you think new bikes don’t make it easier and make you faster. Why did you ever upgrade from your old rigid if they don’t?
the point of my original post was to provide some insight into the pros and cons of Ebikes.
Too many people feel they will be judged if they are seen with a motor. Attitudes like yours make them feel like they are less of a man if they ride an Ebike. To say someone needs to have a medical issue to justify riding an Ebike is just plain ignorant. I’m gonna guess you haven’t spent much time on an Ebike

 

[R grate]

I think they are great , i was in Moab over summer and watched a 65 year old women on Ahab and she was crushing it .
watched 3 on the whole enchilada having a blast . They are all over the trails in Colorado . People need to mind there own fucking business . Too many folks
Ike to bitch about everything . I personally would buy another Moto before a ebike just because it’s a lot more fun then a bicycle .

 

[Joe J]

You could argue that by ebike's allowing riders to cover more trail in the same given time they cause more wear and tare on the trails. Similar to the effects high speed lifts have on ski areas.

 

[Monkey Soup]

I also ride a lot of the same trails I used to and you’re crazy if you think new bikes don’t make it easier and make you faster. Why did you ever upgrade from your old rigid if they don’t?
the point of my original post was to provide some insight into the pros and cons of Ebikes.
Too many people feel they will be judged if they are seen with a motor. Attitudes like yours make them feel like they are less of a man if they ride an Ebike. To say someone needs to have a medical issue to justify riding an Ebike is just plain ignorant. I’m gonna guess you haven’t spent much time on an Ebike

Yea, newer bikes have definitely made it possible to ride more aggressively, but going up is going up, I’m still pedaIing a 31lb bike up a hill.

And where did I say riding an e-bike makes you less of a man? Take your insecurities up with your therapist, don’t blame that shit on me.

 

[stb222]

Great point, the dynamic of the ride changes a lot when everyone is on Ebikes. In fact, everyone having motor assist is a great way to level the field and make it more about skills and confidence. There are two ways to look at ebikes, as a supplement to fill in what you are lacking due to age, injury or lack of fitness etc... or as a machine to take riding to the next level.
I think ebikes allow a bigger spread of abilities to enjoy riding together. Less feeling like youre gonna hold eveyone up if you cant hang.

But the difference in fitness level will not normalize, nor will difference in skills. Until you reached what ever the limiter speed is, it is an advantage for everyone. The fast people
Will still be the faster people. I find it hard to believe that ebikes are the silver bullet that brings all mtb’ers together.

 

[Robson]

So many opinions...Ride what you like and be happy! Since I'm getting older I can clearly see E-bike in my future

 

[a.s.]

I find it hard to believe that ebikes are the silver bullet that brings all mtb’ers together.

Ya think? I mean look at this thread. Some real strong opinions about Ebikes on here.

Everyone’s riding experience and motivation is different. As long as e-bikers aren’t damaging trails or causing injury then it’s all good. Stop drinking the Hatorade!

 

[mtn]

I think it is ridiculous that ebikes are allowed in some enduro races. That's an awful big advantage for the untimed 'between stages' as you are putting in wayyy less effort.

 

[mattybfat]

Thank god for a life that changes

The old mattybfat wood be

Maybe tomorrow I will go out an buy me a cannondale cyclocross ebike

 

[one piece crank]

Can I get a Trials eBike?

 

[pooriggy]

See my post above. I've worked it out to be cheaper to drive a car. At least for a 30 mile round trip Commute. I use about $10 in gas per week ($520 a year) If you're paying for the car anyway you save no money as that is already an expense. The only way it makes sense is to get rid of the car all together so you're not paying for twice the number of items. Using an Ebike to Commute 5 days a week would also require charging it everyday, meaning the Battery would need to be replaced in a year at $1,000 for a Specialized. That in an of itself is twice as much as it costs maintenance-wise to drive (for me). Not to mention I replace the tires on my road bike every 2 months at almost $200.

But car insurance, registration and your monthly motor violation$.

 

[pooriggy]

seems that ebikes are all the rage in certain markets these days but I’m trying to gauge what’s actually happening locally.

My opinion is that where the culture embraces the bicycle/2 wheel transportation, E bikes are more popular. In the US using a bike for transportation is looked down upon, like taking a bus, however in Europe bikes are viewed differntely, with no stigma and more a part of there culture. California may see more E bikes because they are always at the forefront of going green, even if batteries are not as green as people think, the perception is that they are saving the planet.

What most of us on this website are using bikes for is recreation, and we make up a relatively small percentage of the population. On the wknds we go into the woods to ride bikes but we are a minority compared to fellow citizens. Other countries use bikes more for recreation and transportation, ebike or accoustic, and again I believe that's because it's more a part of there culture.

This graph shows the number of cars to motorcycles/ebikes/bikes/scooters(the graph says motorcycles but it includes all bikes). Americans seem to love cars, and the folks that drive them don't have much respect for those on 2 wheels.

 

[stb222]

My opinion is that where the culture embraces the bicycle/2 wheel transportation, E bikes are more popular. In the US using a bike for transportation is looked down upon, like taking a bus, however in Europe bikes are viewed differntely, with no stigma and more a part of there culture. California may see more E bikes because they are always at the forefront of going green, even if batteries are not as green as people think, the perception is that they are saving the planet.

What most of us on this website are using bikes for is recreation, and we make up a relatively small percentage of the population. On the wknds we go into the woods to ride bikes but we are a minority compared to fellow citizens. Other countries use bikes more for recreation and transportation, ebike or accoustic, and again I believe that's because it's more a part of there culture.

This graph shows the number of cars to motorcycles/ebikes/bikes/scooters(the graph says motorcycles but it includes all bikes). Americans seem to love cars, and the folks that drive them don't have much respect for those on 2 wheels.
View attachment 117152

It is hard to compare, partially because of the American dream of suburbia / de-urbanization. But even in our urban areas, our numbers are no where near Europe's.

https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/2019/12/19/long-distance-commutes-rise-in-copenhagen/

In this article, they mention the average commute by bicycle is 11km, just under 7 miles. A 7 mile commute would be a dream for most americans where the average commute is somewhere around 45 min, by car.

 

[T-Van]

You could argue that by ebike's allowing riders to cover more trail in the same given time they cause more wear and tare on the trails. Similar to the effects high speed lifts have on ski areas.

Technically yes, but you could argue the same about improving fitness and riding more or even buying a better, lighter bike you can ride further.
Could also argue that some tires cause more wear, or heavier riders. Gravel bikes with narrow tires make deep ruts, fatbikes make wider ruts, etc... In my experience, Ive seen weather do way more damage to a trail than any bike.

 

[T-Van]

But the difference in fitness level will not normalize, nor will difference in skills. Until you reached what ever the limiter speed is, it is an advantage for everyone. The fast people
Will still be the faster people. I find it hard to believe that ebikes are the silver bullet that brings all mtb’ers together.

Thats true but it can bring different fitness levels closer together. For example, I have a buddy who is pretty out of shape, to the point that its difficult for us to ride together even for short distances. He was always pretty fast on dirtbikes so he def has the skills. When we are both on ebikes, he can choose high power, I choose low and we can do a fun 12-15mi ride no problem. Sure, Im not riding as hard as I normally would but we can both have a good ride that wasnt possible on normal bikes. This also gets him out on the bike way more and his fitness is improving. I can even choose to ride my normal bike and he can ride E and it would be even closer.
Skills def become more of a factor once the pedaling is less of a factor. This goes both ways though, we all know that guy whos not a great rider but is in great shape and can still beat you in a race. Lol

 

[T-Van]

I think it is ridiculous that ebikes are allowed in some enduro races. That's an awful big advantage for the untimed 'between stages' as you are putting in wayyy less effort.

I'm pretty sure they have their own class and arent racing against regular bikes. There should be a winner for each class and an overall for E and non-E.