Daily Protein Use.

mtnbiker7

New Member
Last year I started taking Hammer Nutrition recoverite after all my workouts and it's one of the best things I've ever done(bike related). Now I'm thinking towards taking another step, that being taking a whey protein shake every morning to help myself even more. I'm just not sure if that will hurt me more then it will help me. I'm worried that it will cause me to bulk up a lot and I will put on too much weight.

Maybe I'm just paranoid but better safe then sorry. I've narrowed it down to two diferent protein drinks. They are...

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3267268

http://hammernutrition.com/products...&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=homehero-whey

I'm looking for some knowledge on the subject and what you think will be my best bet and what will help the most. Unless I hear a really good reason why I shouldn't do it I'm going to buy one of the two and try using them. I will check my weight every day and If I gain more then 5 pounds I'll stop using the protein shakes. Let me know what you have to say.
 

Bleeder

JORBA:President
Daily Protein

I believe whey is best for recovery, but the down side is it has a lot of cholesterol. I don't think you should worry about weight per se, since muscle mass is heavier, and more muscle is desirable.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I'm not going to...whey...in on why you should or should not use them. I currently do, but it's because I don't get enough protein in my normal diet. I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not. But chances are I ride more than you so it may be a bit more justified.

What I will say is that I once bought the Hammer whey stuff, and it was literally the absolutely worst tasting thing I have ever had the displeasure of tasting. Just terrible.

I'm a hack. I just get the chocolate/vanilla/cookies & cream stuff from Target. Drink lots of water.

My question on this direction would be: why do you think this is the next step? Do you think this is a better next step than, say, eating 8 fruits & veggies a day?
 

soulchild

Well-Known Member
I think the first thing we would need to understand is what you mean by "help myself even more". What are you trying to accomplish by adding 24grams of protein (for now we'll ignore the 130 calories, 5g of carbs, 30mg of cholesterol, 3g of sugar, 60mg sodium, bcaa's & glutamine yada yada)...

Is there a particular reason you believe you need the additional protein every morning?

another thing... if you choose the ON... get the pale green label that is their 'natural' option... it doesn't contain aspartame...

EDIT: now that I see Norm has 'whey'd' in (;) I like that) I'd would have to say he knows nutrition 'whey' better than I do but I have used the ON whey and weight gain was a non issue but I use it post workout at the gym or immediately after a ride...
 
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ekuhn

Well-Known Member
I've been using whey protein consistently for a few months now and have used it on and off in the past. I try to have a glass in the morning then after a workout. EAS and Pure Protein both that were available at Shoprite/Stop n Shop - taste the best to me and seem to mix the easiest. I also try to avoid LARGE containers of it - you can get sick of the flavor quickly, then your stuck with it.

http://www.prosource.net/ has good deals too, and you can also use them to get a price match from GNC.

Also get a good mixer like this one. The blender ball works really well. http://www.prosource.net/product_details.aspx?item_guid=62A872EF-807D-408E-8890-5709555E2700
 

bigmike

Member
i have used the ON Whey before and i tasted pretty good...i think the main reason to use whey protein is for recovery....like they said before, you may be eating enough protein in your regular diet. What are you looking to acheive by taking supplements. Weight gain should not be a problem, if taken after a workout its good for muscle recovery.
 

mtnbiker7

New Member
I'm not going to...whey...in on why you should or should not use them. I currently do, but it's because I don't get enough protein in my normal diet. I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not. But chances are I ride more than you so it may be a bit more justified.

What I will say is that I once bought the Hammer whey stuff, and it was literally the absolutely worst tasting thing I have ever had the displeasure of tasting. Just terrible.

I'm a hack. I just get the chocolate/vanilla/cookies & cream stuff from Target. Drink lots of water.

My question on this direction would be: why do you think this is the next step? Do you think this is a better next step than, say, eating 8 fruits & veggies a day?

I do already eat the 8 fruits and veggies a day. I don't however eat enough meat. Right now I am riding about 3 times a week. As it gets warmer and I will get out of school that will be up to 6 or 7 times a week and I want to get the most out of all of it.
 

FFT

Gay & Stuffy
Mucle milk if your counting the calories. Unless your gonna whey/measure the shakes its difficult to determine the nutritional values. I make them as a treat, as a daily supplement I add to much of the goodies like ice cream and peanut butter. Eggs may compensate for the lack of meat in your diet, unless you dont eat them either.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
If you're not a heavy meat eater (like us) then it certainly could be warranted. I track my food intake and I was in the realm of 40g a day before I started paying attention. Way, way too low.

Egg whites are good for sure. Protein bars too. I prefer to straight up mix it with soy/rice milk and have it with cereal at night. Your body likes the protein for muscle recovery when it sleeps, and it just works in my diet. I like to mix it with some sort of solid food to make me feel like I'm eating something solid. Pure liquid calories just don't stick for me that well.

Just to repeat myself: lots of water.

And to your OP - stay away from Hammer IMO. Dreadful. Just dreadful.
 

J-Dro

Well-Known Member
Just be careful with protein bars. A lot of them contain soy protein (which is garbage) instead of whey protein. Read the labels.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
soy protein (which is garbage)

Why is soy protein garbage? I remember doing the research way back when and reading that soy isn't that good for recovery. But it was good for something else which I don't remember right now. I eat protein bars as mid-day meal supplements. Never really thought about soy/whey when buying them.

I believe Clif bars and just about all veggie burgers use soy protein.
 

Kirt

JORBA: Chimney Rock, Team MTBNJ.COM
JORBA.ORG
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Results – Soy vs. Whey Protein

For the most part Whey Protein is the clear winner in the debate of whether whey or soy protein is better and or more efficient. This is especially true when you supplement your protein with a good arginine as well as a good glutamine.

Even though we feel that soy protein has it's place in certain diets (for example those who are lactose intolerant or those who are vegetarians), our conclusion is heavily favored toward the clear benefits and advantages that whey proteins have over soy proteins. Below is a table with all of the results of our findings.

Soy vs. Whey Protein
Variable/Criteria Soy Protein Whey Protein Better Protein
Biological Value (BV) 74 104 Whey Protein
Net Protein Utilization (NPU) 61 92 Whey Protein
Protein Efficiency Ration (PER) 2.2 3.2 Whey Protein
Amino Acid Score (AAS) 0.99 1.14 Whey Protein
Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) 1.00 1.00 Tie
Protein Digestibility Percentage (PD%) 95% 99% Whey Protein
Glutamine per 100g of Protein 10.5g 4.9g Soy Protein
mg EAA per g of Protein 378mg 480mg Whey Protein
Arginine per 100g of Protein 7.6g 2.9g Soy Protein
 

Kirt

JORBA: Chimney Rock, Team MTBNJ.COM
JORBA.ORG
Team MTBNJ Halter's
different conclusion

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson71.htm

Soy Vs. Whey: The Latest Research!

Whey products have, for some time, maintained their position as the gold standard in protein supplementation. However, there is an alternative protein source considered to be equally as effective as whey: soy. If you would like to learn more read on.

By: David Robson

Whey products have, for some time, maintained their position as the gold standard in protein supplementation - whey is the biggest selling protein supplement by far, due to the powerful anabolic effect it exerts on muscle growth.

Whey is thought to contain the perfect combination of muscle-building amino-acids (the building blocks of protein) and enhance the immune system. It has also shown a rapid utilization capacity, for maximum protein absorption by the muscles (making it perfect as a post-workout drink).

Compared to other forms of protein, Whey is thought to be superior, ideally positioned to render these other formulations obsolete. However, there is an alternative protein source considered to be equally as effective as whey: soy.

Soy protein, much derided in bodybuilding circles as a "feminizing" compound (which, as such, is thought to make it harder to gain muscle), has received a lot of negative press over recent years. Why then, would one replace their tried and tested whey with the much maligned, supposedly inferior, soy?

As is so often the case, when a particular scientific issue is debated, there is another side to the story. In recent years, scientists have been looking closely at the effects soy consumption really has on testosterone, and muscle gain.

Recent studies have suggested soy to be as effective, if not more so, than whey in terms of its ability to promote gains in lean muscle mass.

In this report, the latest 'cutting edge' research on soy supplementation will be presented along with the benefits soy might hold for the bodybuilding population, as a legitimate alternative to the whey protein.


Soy Supplementation

Is Soy Detrimental?

Studies have suggested that the phytoestrogens4 contained in soy protein lead to both unwanted decreases in testosterone, and increases in the female sex hormone estrogen.

For example, the isoflavones (a phytoestrogen) found in soy are thought to upset hormone balance, and result in the aforementioned unwanted testosterone and estrogen changes in addition to thyroid problems.


A Case Against Soy!
For quite some time now I have been against the consumption of soy, especially in the form of protein isolates and phytochemical isolates. Find out why...
[ Click here to learn more. ]


Some nutritional counselors have begun to suspect that soy may be to blame for the low energy, digestive disturbances, hypothyroidism, infertility, and other ailments they see in clients.

However, on the other side of the coin, many scientists believe soy to be relatively innocuous, and in fact beneficial for a whole range of physical ailments.

Is Soy Beneficial?

Soy protein, extracted from the annual leguminous soybean plant that has been in the food chain for over 5,000 years, is the only plant-based protein considered to be a high-quality protein, containing all of the essential amino acids in the ratios needed to support growth and development10 11.

The soybean was introduced to the US in the 1880s, and before then was, and still is, a staple of the Asian diet.

Soybeans In The U.S.
The first soybeans arrived in America in the early 1800's as ballast aboard a ship! It wasn't until 1879 that a few brave farmers began to plant soybeans as forage for their livestock. The plants flourished in the hot, humid summer weather characteristic of the northeastern North Carolina. In 1904, the famous American chemist, G. W. Carver discovered that soybeans are a valuable source of protein and oil. He encouraged farmers to rotate their crops with soybeans. To the surprise of farmers, this produced a better crop.

Soy is comprised of 30% carbohydrate (15% of this is fibre), 38% protein, 18% oil (85% of this unsaturated), and 14% moisture11. Soy contains all nine essential amino-acids, in the perfect ratio for health and well-being.

Soy's other nutritional functions include providing a respectable amount of potassium, zinc, iron, vitamin-E, phosphorous as well as the full B-complex11.

Used together in an exercise regimen, soy and whey proteins complement each other well. Whey protein, as mentioned, is high in branched chain amino acids, used as an important energy source by the body during exercise, while soy protein has high amounts of the amino acids arginine and glutamine.

Arginine is well known as a stimulant of anabolic hormones that stimulate muscle formation, while glutamine is considered essential during metabolic stress.

How Soybeans Are Processed

The soybean undergoes a number of stages before it can be used for foods and supplements.

1. The soybeans are cleaned, conditioned, cracked, de-hulled and rolled into flakes.

2. The soy oil is then removed from the flakes.

3. The flakes are then dried, creating the de-fatted soybean flakes.

4. This de-fatted product forms the basis of the three major soy product categories: soy protein concentrate, soy protein isolate and textured soy protein.

Types Of Soy Protein:

Supplemental soy comes in three types: soy protein concentrate, soy protein isolate and textured soy protein.

o Soy Protein Concentrate.
Soy protein concentrate is what is essentially left at the completion of the de-fatting process. On this moisture-free basis (when all the moisture has been removed from the soy flakes), soy concentrate contains at least 65% protein and most of the carbohydrates contained in the soybeans.

o Soy Protein Isolate.
As with whey protein isolate, soy protein isolate is the most pure and refined soy available. Soy isolates are made from the de-fatted beans, but with most of the other ingredients removed, leaving almost a pure protein source (at least 90%+ on a moisture-free basis).

Carbohydrates are removed from soy protein isolates so there is less of a soy-bean taste with this particular form.

o Textured Soy Protein.
Made from soy protein concentrates, the textured soy proteins are what various soy products, such as imitation chicken, pork and steak, are comprised of.


Recent Studies Support Soy's Efficacy

The latest studies into soy protein suggest it does not decrease testosterone and raise estrogen, as previously thought.

The first of these studies, presented at the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) Meeting, May 2004, and sponsored by the US National Dairy Council, found the post-workout consumption of isonitrogenous and isoenergetic soy drink to be statistically significant in hastening mass, fat-bone free mass (FBFM) and increases in strength, when compared to other post-workout formulations (skim milk and maltodextrin beverage), both of which had a similar degree of efficacy6.

This study demonstrated that intact proteins from both soy and milk protein are effective in supporting muscle hypertrophy, lending a degree of support to soy as a legitimate post-workout nutritional beverage.

This studies method involved randomizing 34-subjects to milk (n=12, skim milk), soy beverage (n=11) or maltodextrin beverage (n=11) (note: n= number of subjects per randomized group), using a double-blind allocation process.

Participants trained 5 days-per-week on a whole body split resistance training program and consumed 500ml of their assigned drink immediately and 1h post-exercise following every training bout.

The most recent study into soy as an effective aid to muscle-building (this study served to help dispel the notion that testosterone decreases in concert with soy consumption), was presented on April 5 2005, and underwritten by the Solae Company.

They found daily supplementation of soy protein, whey or a soy/whey blend resulted in an increase in lean body mass and did not negatively affect testosterone or estradiol levels in 41 male athletes engaging in a weight-training program (9).

The study's purpose was to compare the effect of supplementation of 50-grams-per-day of four different protein supplements in combination with resistance training on lean body composition and serum sex hormone changes in males.


The Study Found

* All of the protein sources resulted in the desired affect of increasing lean body mass. In addition, there was no difference between the supplement sources on changes in testosterone levels.

* The lean muscle mass gains that were demonstrated in this study are consistent with prior research looking at how soy and whey impact lean muscle mass in conjunction with an exercise regimen.

Discussion

* Athletes who incorporate both soy and whey protein in their nutritional regimens may benefit from their different rates of digestion and amino acid absorption. Whey protein digests more quickly, while soy protein digests more gradually.

* In addition, soy protein consumption may provide additional health benefits including a reduced risk of coronary heart disease when combined with a healthy diet. Recent studies also demonstrate that soy protein consumption may reduce the risk of certain kinds of cancer including prostate cancer.

* This study is consistent with other studies, which have demonstrated that soy protein has unique benefits for exercising adults in improving antioxidant status. These findings indicate that soy protein can help combat free radical formation during exercise, which may help speed muscle recovery after exercise.
 

Kirt

JORBA: Chimney Rock, Team MTBNJ.COM
JORBA.ORG
Team MTBNJ Halter's
more

The Experts Speak9

Greg Paul, Ph.D., director of health and nutrition for The Solae Company says:

"The results of this study show that soy protein is just as effective as whey protein in building lean muscle mass as part of a dedicated exercise and nutrition regimen, while contradicting the myth that soy protein may negatively impact testosterone levels in men.

"These results are consistent with prior studies which have compared the effect of whey protein and soy protein on lean muscle mass, and supports the notion that dedicated athletes may benefit from a nutrition regiment that includes both soy and whey proteins."

Douglas S. Kalman, M.S, R.D., Director of Nutrition & Applied Clinical Research at Miami Research Associates says:

"We believe that this study validates that soy protein is safe and just as effective as whey protein in helping exercising males achieve their fitness goals and supports the development of lean muscle mass."

Benefits Of Soy Protein

A review of the research into soy consumption for health purposes, uncovered many benefits.

1. Soy protein has a 1.0 PDCAAS (Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid score) score - the highest possible. The PDCAAS is the standard measurement of protein quality.

2. Soy protein increases the nutritional value of other foods due to its complete amino acid profile.

3. Soy has been shown to reduce the likelihood of heart disease through its ability to lower cholesterol1 12. Results from a meta-analysis of 38 clinical studies concluded that soy protein consumption may help lower total blood cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol as compared to animal protein consumption.

In 1999, the FDA determined that four-servings of soy protein per-day could reduce LDL cholesterol (the bad type, HDL being the good) by up to 10%.

Although soy helps to lower LDL, it doesn't effect HDL status, which is also a good thing. The American Heart Association also recommends the consumption of soy protein (with naturally occurring isoflavones) as part of a heart-healthy diet for those with elevated total and LDL cholesterol.

4. Soy protein is also thought to reduce the risk of other illnesses such as colon, breast and prostate cancer2 3 7, as well as osteoporosis. Research has shown several bioactive compounds found in soybeans (isoflavones being one) to reduce the risk of certain cancers7.

5. Soy enhances athletic performance6 8 9. The isoflavones found in soy protein produce antioxidant effects, which speed recovery and reduce muscle soreness and inflammation.

In addition, soy does supply a full complement of amino acids for the exercising muscles - muscles will become larger and stronger with soy protein. In fact, athletes who incorporate both soy and whey protein in their nutritional regimens may benefit from their different rates of digestion and amino acid absorption.

Whey protein digests more quickly, while soy protein digests more gradually. Together, they may provide a more prolonged, deliberate release of amino acids to key muscle groups.

6. Cost: one of the biggest benefits to the consumer is the considerable reduction in cost, using soy will present. With whey protein costs soaring, soy might prove to be much less expensive (around two-dollars-per-pound less).

7. Beneficial for women's health7. Consuming soy protein has a number of benefits unique to women's health, including the alleviation of symptoms associated with menopause, the protection of bone health and the a reduction of the risk of breast cancer.


Conclusion

Obviously, more research will need to be done, but if the studies presented here are anything to go by, the future of soy supplementation looks good.

This report is not intended to denounce whey protein or hail soy as the newest miracle product, but, rather, present another side to the whey vs. soy story, with the latest research to help people make more informed choices.

Soy protein could be an excellent anabolic aid, used independently, or in concert with whey protein, to stimulate further gains in muscle.
 

1speed

Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
Obviously, more research will need to be done, but if the studies presented here are anything to go by, the future of soy supplementation looks good.

This report is not intended to denounce whey protein or hail soy as the newest miracle product, but, rather, present another side to the whey vs. soy story, with the latest research to help people make more informed choices.

Soy protein could be an excellent anabolic aid, used independently, or in concert with whey protein, to stimulate further gains in muscle.

I like to combine it with rice in sauce form.
 

Chris(NJ)

Well-Known Member
I used to supplement my post-workouts/rides w/ protein, but I have since quit. (I've actually restructured my diet completely). I must admit, I'm not seeing any downside to not taking it. I've increased meat and veggie consumption, removed breads and a huge portion of my sugars. Its a bit more along the lines of a paleo-esque diet. anyway, thats for another time...

I dont think it was mentioned yet, but its worth noting, depending on your intake of shakes:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...-drinks/whats-in-your-protein-drink/index.htm
 
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