Cooper River - CRCX 2015

mbruno

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
NJ has shown that it is content to be the "feeder league" to other bigger series in the region. So the A race does not take any priority and as a result, those riders do not make it a point to go. The series also does not push the fastest riders in some of the other classes to race up. So the elite racers end up staying in other categories and just topping out in them and being happy with it. You could take the top 2-3 from the B class and the top 5 from the 40+ and move them to the elite field and then that field would be worth watching. But really, that elite field should be racing mid-day to draw the most interest and spectators.

IMO cat 4/5 racers should always be last. That's the encouragement to move up to the next class.

These are fantastic ideas. How do we make them happen? The MAC changed around men's race categories this year and stuck the 3/4 race at the end of the day. So it's not like there isn't somewhat of a precedent.

There currently is an incentive for the top B racers from the previous year to race the A race. The top 3 B racers cannot earn points in the B's the following year. Maybe NJBA should prohibit the top 3 B racers from racing the B's the next year (sorry @pearl)?

I'd be willing to draft up a proposal. Do we need signatures? Who do we need to talk to?
 

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
if the top 5 finishers of the B race did the A race, I would have someone to race with, sadly im rolling around for an hour by myself :(
 

MixMastaMM

Team Bulldog Rider
There currently is an incentive for the top B racers from the previous year to race the A race. The top 3 B racers cannot earn points in the B's the following year. Maybe NJBA should prohibit the top 3 B racers from racing the B's the next year)?

http://www.njbikeracing.com/wp/cx-cup/


9.Any riders that placed in the top 3 overall of the Men’s Cat 4, Men’s Cat 3 or Women’s Cat 3 2014 CX Cup final standings will not be eligible for points in those categories in 2015.
 

-YETI-

Active Member
I have to admit, I really don't understand why someone wouldn't want to upgrade. How can it be motivating to train hard every day just to continually win in a lower class? I'd rather upgrade and finish in the last half in the next class as this will make me a faster rider.

Weird.
 
Last edited:

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
I'd rather upgrade and finish in the last half in the next class as this will make me overall a faster rider. Weird.

I usually follow this notion as well, but once I did the first A race and rode by myself for 45 minutes, I realized either A) i'm not fast enough or B) not enough people are going to race the A race. I like cross because I can race people, not just TT by myself in the grass. If I was duking it out for 20 out of 23 in the back of the A race or with the top 5 in the B race, it would be the same thing to me. Rolling around solo in the grass blows.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I'd be willing to draft up a proposal. Do we need signatures? Who do we need to talk to?

I am a promoter/former promoter and do not get invited to the promoter meeting. So I'll guess that the best was for us to write up this proposal is to get some toilet paper, write it up, take a crap, then use it and flush it all down the toilet. I know this will ruffle some feathers but it's not like MTBNJ doesn't know what we're doing in the race promotion game.

That series rule is meaningless because so few people run out the entire series. You will see people bail on the NJ Cup this year after this coming weekend. 2 rain races? That's 25% of the series. Game over for many.

Also to be clear, if it seems like I am calling out @pearl, I am not. In fact I told him to go back to the Bs because the A race was a waste of his time. As we watched him at Mill Creek it was obvious he was defining the expression "junk miles". He was riding his bike by himself in a field for 6 (of 9) laps. Not at race pace, because nobody was in the same zip code. And certainly not at recovery pace. But in this limbo state between the 2. I suggested that as long as nobody shows for the A race, he should stick to Bs. If he shows up and wins a B race by a minute, then he needs to move up. But as long as this is not the case then I don't think it benefits him to move up.

I can tell you that some of the guys in the 40+ class are bummed our race is so late. I mean, let's face reality here. Most of us in the 40+ class have families. How many people can blow off an entire weekend day to do a race that's at 1:40? The A race being at 3:00 or 3:30 makes it a total non-starter in many of these households. When an hour long race means you won't be home for dinner, it's not even a topic for conversation.

Put the less convenient start times for the classes that you want to thin out. Want people to upgrade out of the D class? Start them at 7am or 4pm. Want people to show to a race? Make it 11am or noon.
 

SpartaBard

Well-Known Member
if the top 5 finishers of the B race did the A race, I would have someone to race with, sadly im rolling around for an hour by myself :(
I think I may have enough points to upgrade to cat2, but I would get destroyed and would promptly end up racing 40+ instead of A.
 

Delish

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
NJ has shown that it is content to be the "feeder league" to other bigger series in the region. So the A race does not take any priority and as a result, those riders do not make it a point to go. The series also does not push the fastest riders in some of the other classes to race up. So the elite racers end up staying in other categories and just topping out in them and being happy with it. You could take the top 2-3 from the B class and the top 5 from the 40+ and move them to the elite field and then that field would be worth watching. But really, that elite field should be racing mid-day to draw the most interest and spectators.

IMO cat 4/5 racers should always be last. That's the encouragement to move up to the next class.

I completely agree with this but of course you know this.

People claim the A race should be at the end of the day because it is the marquee event, which is a bunch of crap. The marquee event is the noon event. That's when the most people are around. Low turnout in the A race has become a self fufilling prophecy. It gets shafted and put at the end of the day because the numbers are low, but the numbers are low because it is at the end of the day.

I spoke to Frank about it last night and, as predicted, he is doing the M40+ rather than A because of the start time.

I would much rather see 25+ guys in the A race and have a competitive race (and not podium) than race as many as 8 other guys and take home a some cash (great ride at Hippo BTW @mbruno). Time trialing in the grass for 55 minutes sucks. Force the top 40+ finishers to race A's just like we do the B's and I think people would throw a fit Hell, a few of the 50+ guys would be serious contenders in the A race. Whatever the answer, I'd love to have the opportunity to race together against the top 25 dudes at the NJ races.

I get that people like winning. Lets do one big ass "fast guy" field and have separate podiums for overall, 40+ and 50+. One big race with 3 races within the race.
 

Mountain Bike Mike

Well-Known Member
I'm not a fan of the C races starting at 9am because it's tough to get the family out of the house and to the event with enough time for me to preride, warm up... Many races the family will not be there to spectate. BUT - more motivation to work like hell to earn enough points to upgrade to B... At this point, I don't see myself racing into the A's. Maybe Masters 40+ when I turn forty after a couple years in the B's.

The B's is the best start time IMO and a great race to spectate. For me - That is where I hope to be....
 

ChrisG

Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
Don't fall in love with the start time @Mountain Bike Mike. It changes year to year, series by series.
And this is another thing. I was just discussing this with a fellow racer over the weekend. The MAC has a standardized set of start times and start order. The NJ Cup has the start order set for each season, and they rotate (somewhat) the order annually, but the start times are all over the place from event to event. IMO, this adds to the "feeder system" vibe.
 

audi666

Active Member
If the 123 race was 11am-12 noon it would be the biggest class of the day.



I understand that time has something to do with it but I don’t ever see the A-race being the biggest class of the day. People like to do well and not ride by themselves in a grassy field for 40+ minutes.


And this is another thing. I was just discussing this with a fellow racer over the weekend. The MAC has a standardized set of start times and start order. The NJ Cup has the start order set for each season, and they rotate (somewhat) the order annually, but the start times are all over the place from event to event. IMO, this adds to the "feeder system" vibe.



They usually do but for some reason the B race was the last race of the day at Nittany but the A race goes back to being the last race at Charm.
 

Superfly100guy

Well-Known Member
I understand that time has something to do with it but I don’t ever see the A-race being the biggest class of the day. People like to do well and not ride by themselves in a grassy field for 40+ minutes.

Ok not the biggest but I'm sure lot's more people and way more spectators. And I might add racing for last in the A field with a bunch of people cheering you on really isn't that bad.






They usually do but for some reason the B race was the last race of the day at Nittany but the A race goes back to being the last race at Charm.
 

audi666

Active Member
Ok not the biggest but I'm sure lot's more people and way more spectators. And I might add racing for last in the A field with a bunch of people cheering you on really isn't that bad.

i dont know, racing for last in the A race is pretty demoralizing even if people are giving you pity cheers... especially the 1st season since most are use to being in the mix/at the front of a race previously.
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I got really used to the 9am race time that at Hippo when the 4s went off at 9am and I had almost an hour to kill I had no idea WTF to do with myself. Was super convenient to pre-ride the course to warm-up. 9am allows you to pretty much finish your race before most people even get there so you're done with any racing prep and just hang out heckling/shouting the rest of the day.
 

Mountain Bike Mike

Well-Known Member
I got really used to the 9am race time that at Hippo when the 4s went off at 9am and I had almost an hour to kill I had no idea WTF to do with myself. Was super convenient to pre-ride the course to warm-up. 9am allows you to pretty much finish your race before most people even get there so you're done with any racing prep and just hang out heckling/shouting the rest of the day.


But the good Hecklers don't show up until the race is over...
 
Top Bottom