Car-spotting thread

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
out in full force haha :D

@Monkey Soup all good points but counterpoints... in regards to Tesla superchargers only... 90% live 150 miles within a supercharger and it's getting higher % and lower distance. You can buy a used Model S 85 for low $30s. You can buy a MR Model 3 (260mile range) for $40k. We produce one bag of trash a week, eat veggies mainly and even compost but driving EV isn't to save the environment. It's the better daily car. Fast, smooth, quiet. But if we all as humans keep this up and treating everything as disposable we are fucked fo sho.

@UtahJoe mid-2020 meaning like 2025s. ICE cars will be fading from the manufacturers or majority will be BEV or EV variety of some sort.

@Santapez again, it's not about cost savings that's just a bonus. I'll have you know a lot of superchargers are next to paneras ;) And this scenario will get better. I've been to NW Mass and OBX. No complaints.
43343F0A-BD1D-4B92-A1B4-C479F28A091F.jpeg


@fidodie that's a tricky concept. Owners would have to pay to lease batteries. No one wants another persons abused and degraded battery.

@rick81721 hoping to go solar soon
 
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Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
@fidodie that's a tricky concept. Owners would have to pay to lease batteries. No one wants another persons abused and degraded battery.[/QUOTE]

billing would take care of the difference, cost of recharge and the wear on the battery - they just ensure a given amount of energy is available.
you'd never have to buck-up for battery replacement, as each kwh cost an extra little to cover one of the more expensive parts of the car.
maybe this model actually makes the cars more affordable.
 

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
@shrpshtr325
Our leaf yea definitely 50%. Still works for my commute to station. Our Tesla, maybe like 25% in the 20s. Last year I had to drive the Tesla 130miles roundtrip for a week. No stops to charge. I suspect most of the users experience higher battery range loss are the type that blast the heat the entire haul. I use seat heaters and heated steering wheel 100% of the time but that's just me. Gas cars also loose range but you have more gas stations. One really has experience EV ownership over their usual week before they write it off. Also, it depends if all those statistics are from cars cold soaked batteries or not.

FTR I still have two gas cars but they are for fun/hobby and I enjoy the noise too!
 
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one piece crank

Well-Known Member
I was looking at used Leafs, pretty in expensive for not a lot of miles. But I figured they are all sub-100-mile range, which doesn't leave me a lot of wiggle room...
 

qclabrat

Well-Known Member
I was looking at used Leafs, pretty in expensive for not a lot of miles. But I figured they are all sub-100-mile range, which doesn't leave me a lot of wiggle room...
I looked at one last year, the low range EV cars are dirt cheap
Can't see having just one of them, really need a backup petro power
 

shrpshtr325

Infinite Source of Sarcasm
Team MTBNJ Halter's
@shrpshtr325
Our leaf yea definitely 50%. Still works for my commute to station. Our Tesla, maybe like 25% in the 20s. Last year I had to drive the Tesla 130miles roundtrip for a week. No stops to charge. I suspect most of the users experience higher battery range loss are the type that blast the heat the entire haul. I use seat heaters and heated steering wheel 100% of the time but that's just me. Gas cars also loose range but you have more gas stations. One really has experience EV ownership over their usual week before they write it off. Also, it depends if all those statistics are from cars cold soaked batteries or not.

FTR I still have two gas cars but they are for fun/hobby and I enjoy the noise too!

my commute is 125ish miles round trip, that puts me mighty close to dead on the side of the road in the winter. Yes gas cars loose range too, but my truck goes form 21-20mpg in the winter . . . . not such a huge loss (5% vs 40-50%), and as you mentioned refilling them is a quicker act as well. My wife and i keep joking that she could lease an EV for commuting (she does maybe 60-70 miles round trip) and whenever we go on a road trip we just take one of my cars (my commute requires greater range than evs allow right now and my toy will be my toy, no explanation needed) Its all a matter of wha tyou need.


also how does the bike fit in the tesla or the leaf? im sure putting a rack on it would reduce the range comparably to how it does on a gas car . . . (i can keep the bike with me in the truck with no efficiency penalty) . . .

Everyones situation is different and you need to do what works for you, and for myself (and most people) that is ICE, at least for the time being (id say more than 10 years out on them making a dent, but thats just my take, and like @UtahJoe said it wont happen until you can charge them in a comparable time to filling a gas tank)

Also think about the improvements that will have to be made to the electrical grid (not even talking about generation) in order to support the extra load from everyone charging 1 (or in many cases 2 or 3) EVs every night . . . . the current grid is aging and just not up to the task, especially outside of major metropolitan areas.
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
@Santapez again, it's not about cost savings that's just a bonus. I'll have you know a lot of superchargers are next to paneras ;) And this scenario will get better. I've been to NW Mass and OBX. No complaints.
View attachment 88187

If it's not about the cost, it doesn't seem to be about the convenience either. So you have to stop for 35 minutes to re-fuel on the trip down. What about when you're down there, you have to wait another 35 minutes at a supercharger station before heading back up north?

Just curious, how much cost is it to go from empty to full on a Model S at a supercharger station?

I was looking at used Leafs, pretty in expensive for not a lot of miles. But I figured they are all sub-100-mile range, which doesn't leave me a lot of wiggle room...

Those used Leafs seem like an awesome bargain. I'd totally get one if I had extra room, however it'd be an additional car. It could work for me almost every day for normal commutes to my office but would never work when I have to do field work or go far for bike rides etc. Useless for weekend trips.
 

serviceguy

Well-Known Member
Can anybody explain to me:

a - how environmentally friendly is to build and eventually dispose of the batteries for these cars
b - how the electrical energy necessary to power said cars will be produced (and please spare the eolic bs)
c - why supposedly environmentally friendly vehicles have to be so ugly (and yes, Teslas are ugly as they all resemble a beached catfish)

I am all for protecting the environment simply because you're not supposed to crap where you eat (sorry I'm a little bit crude, I know) but it ain't gonna happen if we want to keep all the toys (A/C, cars, cell phone, bikes etc.)
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
also how does the bike fit in the tesla or the leaf? im sure putting a rack on it would reduce the range comparably to how it does on a gas car . . . (i can keep the bike with me in the truck with no efficiency penalty) . . .

Also think about the improvements that will have to be made to the electrical grid (not even talking about generation) in order to support the extra load from everyone charging 1 (or in many cases 2 or 3) EVs every night . . . . the current grid is aging and just not up to the task, especially outside of major metropolitan areas.

I'm assuming fitting a bike inside isn't too bad. Model S is a hatchback as is the Leaf. A hitch rack puts the bike behind the car so it's out of the wind. I notice no difference with the bike in the back, still get around 38MPG in my car.

Most electric usage is during the day. Charging at night would actually help keep the base plants (nuclear, hydro) working more efficiently as the usage is more steady.

I'm not anti electric car. It's actually funny if you've listened to any recent Joe Rogan podcasts as he gets really sad talking about his new Model S. It's ruined other cars for him. He'll talk about how he has a GT3 and how the Model S is in a whole new world. Maybe you should consider one for your fun car. :)
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
Can anybody explain to me:

a - how environmentally friendly is to build and eventually dispose of the batteries for these cars
b - how the electrical energy necessary to power said cars will be produced (and please spare the eolic bs)
c - why supposedly environmentally friendly vehicles have to be so ugly (and yes, Teslas are ugly as they all resemble a beached catfish)

I am all for protecting the environment simply because you're not supposed to crap where you eat (sorry I'm a little bit crude, I know) but it ain't gonna happen if we want to keep all the toys (A/C, cars, cell phone, bikes etc.)

- burn the batteries to produce electricity? I think more volume will produce more answers to the recycle problem.
- if they can be charged off-peak, that would help with the capacity management problem of power plants. rather than pumping water uphill
- they are going to get uglier, and redefine attractive. this is the italian & cars thing coming out. i like the 124, the 500 is ugly.
 

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
@Santapez you're not saving on road trips. You are saving $ when you charge at home. Let's say 85% of your cars life is only used locally. You save money.

Yes, I just fold the seats down. NDB. I don't listen to Joe Rogan but that's cool. It's mostly true that once you enter this T world it's hard to turn back. You have joe schmo appreciating their T beyond anything they ever owned before. There are some nuances but they are insignificant within the bigger picture. My autp crossing, Tesla shorting friend drive our model 3 this weekend for the first time. I think he came away quite impressed...
 

one piece crank

Well-Known Member
I drive 30 miles R/T, but I couldn't justify a Leaf with 100-mile-best-case range. It's really easy to rack up 50+ un-announced miles and I dont want to have to go home and switch cars.

Kudos to Manny for adopting EV, as that's what it takes to advance the technology. Me, I'm buring the other end of the candle, fueling multiple ICE vehicles, including V8's, until fossil fuels dry up and we have better power source/distribution/storage options.
 

Monkey Soup

Angry Wanker
I'm assuming fitting a bike inside isn't too bad. Model S is a hatchback as is the Leaf. A hitch rack puts the bike behind the car so it's out of the wind. I notice no difference with the bike in the back, still get around 38MPG in my car.

Most electric usage is during the day. Charging at night would actually help keep the base plants (nuclear, hydro) working more efficiently as the usage is more steady.

I'm not anti electric car. It's actually funny if you've listened to any recent Joe Rogan podcasts as he gets really sad talking about his new Model S. It's ruined other cars for him. He'll talk about how he has a GT3 and how the Model S is in a whole new world. Maybe you should consider one for your fun car. :)

I’ve driven a Model S. I’ve driven a GT3. If Joe is implying that a Model S is more fun than a GT3, then I think that he needs to ease up on the Ayahuasca and DMT a little, because there is literally no comparison there.
 

shrpshtr325

Infinite Source of Sarcasm
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Most electric usage is during the day. Charging at night would actually help keep the base plants (nuclear, hydro) working more efficiently as the usage is more steady.

this may be true for a small (relative to the total number of cars on the road) number of evs charging at home, but have you ever experienced rolling brownouts/blackouts in the summer? when do they happen? at night right? (early evening anyway), this is the grid being unable to keep up with the demand associated with cooling the existing houses and consumers, charging all those cars at night would certainly add a load (maybe not quite that large, im really not sure what kind of power the home chargers draw @THATmanMANNY ???, or at least what kind of circuit do they hook up to) to a grid which already cannot handle peak loads as it is, upgrades to cope with the demand are NOT OPTIONAL.


EDIT:

ok went to teslas website to look up the specs for the fast wall chargers (pretty sure thats what people will go for if using the car every day)
https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector

at 220v the model 3 takes a 40amp breaker and the model s x ect take a 60 amp breaker.
My home A/C system runs 220v with two circuits, a 15 and a 30, so 45 amps combined max power draw, so pretty much the same as a model 3 and a fair bit (25%) less than a model s,x ect. I was mistaken this will be a larger draw than everyone cranking the A/C in the summer, especially if they (like most households i know) have 2 cars

EDIT2: looks like 2 cars per household is a fair estimate https://www.autonews.com/article/20...in-u-s-vehicle-ownership-per-person-household (and maybe that number is climbing?)
 
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serviceguy

Well-Known Member
this may be true for a small (relative to the total number of cars on the road) number of evs charging at home, but have you ever experienced rolling brownouts/blackouts in the summer? when do they happen? at night right? (early evening anyway), this is the grid being unable to keep up with the demand associated with cooling the existing houses and consumers, charging all those cars at night would certainly add a load (maybe not quite that large, im really not sure what kind of power the home chargers draw @THATmanMANNY ???, or at least what kind of circuit do they hook up to) to a grid which already cannot handle peak loads as it is, upgrades to cope with the demand are NOT OPTIONAL.


EDIT:

ok went to teslas website to look up the specs for the fast wall chargers (pretty sure thats what people will go for if using the car every day)
https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector

at 220v the model 3 takes a 40amp breaker and the model s x ect take a 60 amp breaker.
My home A/C system runs 220v with two circuits, a 15 and a 30, so 45 amps combined max power draw, so pretty much the same as a model 3 and a fair bit (25%) less than a model s,x ect. I was mistaken this will be a larger draw than everyone cranking the A/C in the summer, especially if they (like most households i know) have 2 cars

EDIT2: looks like 2 cars per household is a fair estimate https://www.autonews.com/article/20...in-u-s-vehicle-ownership-per-person-household (and maybe that number is climbing?)

Aren't cars going to be banned anyway, electric or gas propelled? I can't wait for the Ringwood / Cupsaw Ave High-Speed train station to be built, I just wonder if it's going to be state or federal operated and managed...

[/Thread]
 
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THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
You leave out one point Joe Rogan drives in LOS ANGELES. Hell on earth is better with a Tesla. @Karate Monkey you my friend are just on another level of hardcore

@one piece crank why thank you? Ha. The leaf takes like $2.50 for full charge for let’s say 60miles use. I don’t know about the Model 3. It’s my wife’s car and I don’t spend enough time in it for analytics. I do most of the charging. She doesn’t have to “gas” it up ever she is happy AF. Happy wife, happy life. It’s also a bargaining chip for me when I want to buy something “well, you have a Tesla”.

@shrpshtr325 This deep dive analysis is not for me haha. I paid electrician $300 to install a 240v outlet in garage and a level 2 kit outside. I just know it all works for me and I enjoy the cars. Let someone else worry about energy supply. I have a 100amp breaker and gas appliances. No issues. Those are the highest rate chargers available but you don’t neccesarrily need them unless if you live on the road and in and out of the house. In that case... why do you have a home? 240v outlet and your mobile cord charges 30mi/hr. I do my charging mainly during sleep time or early mornings. The Leaf I have to actively charge and make sure i’M charging 90% or more for my daily needs. The T nothing to worry about. Even at setting the limit to 70% and not charging for a few days.


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Kaleidopete

Well-Known Member
Another thing to think about is your electric rates. I have Orange & Rockland, even though I live in NJ.
For a NY customer these are the rates in cents.
June through September 9 PM until 10 AM 1.832 kWh
10 AM to 12 Noon 10.1 kWh
12 Noon to 7 PM 28.4 kWh
7 PM to 9 PM 10.1 kWh

For me as a NJ customer the rate is fixed at 28.4 cents kwh. BIG difference!
 
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