Campmor H2H Ringwood Race

NJ Jess said:
Enjoyed working the JORBA tent prior to the race and meeting with some of you folk. Congrads Eileen too!

I enjoy riding Ringwood and felt fine during the race, no cramps even though I rode most everything,...except the bridge. Unfortunately,...I got pulled just before my 3rd lap because I was 35+ minutes back.

Strange,..you need to race a 3rd lap to gain experience, but not during the race I guess. It really bummed me out so I just left. I would have podiumed in SS sport, but I'm not in the running of expert by a longshot even with paydirt. So paying to race for training and not getting to finish really rots.
Click to expand...

I'm having a difficult time crafting a diplomatic reply. If going home is such an issue, they should try to start the races on time. I'll just leave it at that but if they tried to pull me off the course they'd have to forcibly remove me from my bicycle.

Next time just keep going and tell them to kiss your muddy ass. It's a public park you're free to ride where you want.
 
NJ Jess said:
I enjoy riding Ringwood and felt fine during the race, no cramps even though I rode most everything,...except the bridge. Unfortunately,...I got pulled just before my 3rd lap because I was 35+ minutes back.

Strange,..you need to race a 3rd lap to gain experience, but not during the race I guess. It really bummed me out so I just left. I would have podiumed in SS sport, but I'm not in the running of expert by a longshot even with paydirt. So paying to race for training and not getting to finish really rots.
Click to expand...
Wow, I don't know if I've ever heard of this at an mtb race.

It's standard procedure on the road for criterium and circuit racing, when backmarkers can pose a safety hazard, and I can see it for short-course mtb racing, but I'd be curious to hear an acceptable rationale for doing this on a long-course mtb race.

Certainly there were plenty of racers in other classes who finished more than 35 minutes down and were still granted the courtesy of completing the race.
 
Thanks to all the racers that came out to Sundays race to enjoy the day. I know things did not run perfect, and I'm glad some of you could enjoy your day reguardless of the imperfections.

As for starting on time, we had some problems that were out of our control. Two of which were a late ambulance, which we can not start without, and the the park being a full hour late to open the park that morning. In all 19 years of promoting races, this has never occured. I'm sorry that we were not able to follow strickly to the schedule. And that goes right down to the end, with doing what we thought was safest to get all racers and Volunteers in before dark. As it was, we had to drive a car across the park to get tha last volunteer.

I also would like to remind all racers, and spectaters, that Ringwood State Park, or any NJ state park does not permit alcoholic beverages. As a promoter we ask that this rule be followed during race day. RVCC spent 15 years building a relationship with the park, and directed over 1000 hours of trail building and maitenance this year, to try to improve the mountain bike experience for everyone. Walking around with open beer, and leaving them around in the pavilion can make mountain bikers look irresponsible and in the long run, jeapordize future experiences for all mounain bikers.

Any questions or thoughts, please do not hesitate to contact RVCC by email.

Ellen
RVCC
 
Norm said:
I'm having a difficult time crafting a diplomatic reply. If going home is such an issue, they should try to start the races on time.
Click to expand...

Although I could not be there due to a lingering sickness, in 13 years of racing and 12 years of race promotion I've seen quite a few things.

We've (Team Bulldog) had to start races late due to the ambulance arriving late, as well. If the ambulance is on a call elsewhere, obviously it can't be at the race. Likewise, at times the course is a bit slower than you expect. For the safety of the racers out there (and to keep score-keeping as accurate as possible), it is sometimes not wise to start the next race until all racers from the previous race are in. I've been at USA Cycling (NORBA) National Events that have started as much as 90 minutes late. As Ellen says, sometimes things happen that are out of the race promoter's control.

None of the race promoters in the Campmor H2H series are full-time promoters. They all have jobs, families, and love to race and ride. Without these folks dedicating such time and effort, there would not be any races. The RVCC promoters are top-notch and some of the most positive mountain bikers out there. As I always say, until you've promoted a race yourself, it's very easy to criticize without having a full understanding of what makes a race happen.

Overall it's been another great series and it's awesome to see the numbers increasing. I look forward to 2008 and working to improve our series and getting even more racers involved.

If you are interested in race promotion, you can start by joining a club or team that already puts on a race. If you are already on a club or team that does not put on a race, go for it! Get your members fired up an put on an event. I'm sure any of the promoters would be willing to help out on your first race.
 
Last edited:
pixychick said:
...and what tree might that be ??

I was cleaning up the course today and may have run into your vomit. Those articles are currently in the washer.

Why am I the one that always steps in dog doo? :mad2:
Click to expand...

Again, my appologies... For myself and others around me I will NOT do that again.
 
Brian,

OK, perhaps my post was without the benefit of considering an alternate point of view. Still, it bugs me that someone would get pulled in that situation. I understand all that goes into it. I probably put more hours into helping run this website, running our fledgling team, helping JORBA, and riding than most people work a week. Dedication to a cause certainly isn't something I'm unfamiliar with. Additionally I've tried to offer my help with season scoring and 3 of my 4 emails/PMs to series promoters have been ignored.

In the end my comments are aimed at making things better, not to criticize. I can tell you from informally talking to people the 2 biggest issues are 1) Races starting on time and 2) Getting results right away. My suggestion? Start races like they did at the Chain Stretcher (to the minute) and do results like they do at Tymor (I got my result immediately after finishing). If every race was able to do that you would eliminate 90% of the complaints, if not more.

As for people drinking in the lot, they're a bad reflection on the collection of bikers and only serve to ruin the whole thing for all of us. Any teams that condone that behavior should be given fair warning. If anyone from the MTBNJ.com team is part of that, I would be extremely disappointed to say the least.

Thanks for listening, if you did.

Norm
 
Thanks for the congrats, you guys are great :D It's been an awesome season and I can't wait to meet everyone this weekend.

Jess, you kick a** and you'll get 'em next time!!!!!!!!!! :getsome:
 
NJ Jess said:
Enjoyed working the JORBA tent prior to the race and meeting with some of you folk. Congrads Eileen too!

I enjoy riding Ringwood and felt fine during the race, no cramps even though I rode most everything,...except the bridge. Unfortunately,...I got pulled just before my 3rd lap because I was 35+ minutes back.

Strange,..you need to race a 3rd lap to gain experience, but not during the race I guess. It really bummed me out so I just left. I would have podiumed in SS sport, but I'm not in the running of expert by a longshot even with paydirt. So paying to race for training and not getting to finish really rots.
Click to expand...

According to witnesses, you lobbied the race director at the start line to shorten the race to two laps before the race. Why are you now faulting them for enforcing the lap count that you requested?
 
tranquilo said:
According to witnesses, you lobbied the race director at the start line to shorten the race to two laps before the race. Why are you now faulting them for enforcing the lap count that you requested?
Click to expand...

This isn't a serious objection I hope.
 
I was asked by another Expert women to do 2 laps, to which I agreed if everyone voted for it. Once the race starts,...you race what everyone else is committed to. I was awarded 3rd place in my category although 1st and 2nd did the prescribed 3 laps,...should I be happy? should I get 3rd place NORBA points for only doing 2 laps? How do you compare your abilities with other racers if it isn't the same distance? How do I get better doing 2 laps if the rest of the field is doing 3? If they did 2 laps and won I would know were I stand,...how much I need to improve. All I know right now is that I'm 35+ minutes back from the last expert.

It took me 5 hours to complete Chainstretcher Blue Mt and 2:58 for Jungle Habitat. It probably would have taken me 3 to 4 hours to finish Ringwood. Yea, It probably would have been close to dark. Yes, it would have been hard for someone to wait at the finish for one sole rider. I also know it's tough on volunteers to sweep the course if I'm still out there too. It's just that I wanted to "race" just like everyone else in my class. I know I need to put in a lot more time towards winter training this year. Expert racing is truely a committment to training on and off the trails.

As for the putting on a race,...it's a whole lot tougher than it looks. Hope everyone can get themselves on a team or club and become a bigger part of the race series. It has it's rewards too. Yea, problems do occur, but those too are a challenge to overcome.

Looking forward to this Saturday and the Mtbnj picnic!
 
ChrisG said:
It's standard procedure on the road for criterium and circuit racing, when backmarkers can pose a safety hazard, and I can see it for short-course mtb racing, but I'd be curious to hear an acceptable rationale for doing this on a long-course mtb race.
Click to expand...
Ellen and Brian, points duly noted. I was unaware of darkness becoming a legitimate concern. As always, the work you folks put in for the racers is greatly appreciated.

Jess, if nothing else, you can take some killer motivation from this for the off-season. I'm sure 2008 will see you bringing increased success following an off-season of hard training.:getsome:
 
NJ Jess said:
I was asked by another Expert women to do 2 laps, to which I agreed if everyone voted for it. Once the race starts,...you race what everyone else is committed to. I was awarded 3rd place in my category although 1st and 2nd did the prescribed 3 laps,...should I be happy? should I get 3rd place NORBA points for only doing 2 laps? How do you compare your abilities with other racers if it isn't the same distance? How do I get better doing 2 laps if the rest of the field is doing 3? If they did 2 laps and won I would know were I stand,...how much I need to improve. All I know right now is that I'm 35+ minutes back from the last expert.

I know I need to put in a lot more time towards winter training this year. Expert racing is truely a committment to training on and off the trails.
Click to expand...


I don’t want to get into a flame war, but I would argue that you were treated pretty fairly. You didn’t finish and yet you were still awarded a podium spot, and probably picked up enough prize money get back your entry fee. Compare that with some of the other Expert women who actually finished at the top of their category but didn’t get anything because they were grouped with the Pros, which I think was unfair. If categories are going to be combined, then combine Experts with other Experts, or combine all the Experts with all the Pros. The 35+ Expert women often have the fastest overall Expert times, so to argue that the younger group should have to compete against pros while the others don’t, in my view, doesn’t hold water.

As far as getting the experience to compete in the higher level, you are right that it takes a tremendous amount of commitment and effort. Races will help, but the time to close that gap is during your weekly training.
 
that's a really great video. it actually really helpful to see how the pros and faster experts tackle terrain that i have ridden before. thanks for posting it!
 
Sorry Jess

Okay as a Offical and Racer I would like to say that what we did is no easy Task, One I personally know Jess and know how hard she has been training. Second:
Mtn. Snow Nationals this year we were told at the start if we did not complete the second lap by time X we would be pulled and finished in descending order on the 3rd lap ( Expert 40 + ).

Jess I am very sorry.
Willy
 
Huh,...

tranquilo said:
I don’t want to get into a flame war, but I would argue that you were treated pretty fairly. You didn’t finish and yet you were still awarded a podium spot, and probably picked up enough prize money get back your entry fee. Compare that with some of the other Expert women who actually finished at the top of their category but didn’t get anything because they were grouped with the Pros, which I think was unfair. If categories are going to be combined, then combine Experts with other Experts, or combine all the Experts with all the Pros. The 35+ Expert women often have the fastest overall Expert times, so to argue that the younger group should have to compete against pros while the others don’t, in my view, doesn’t hold water.

As far as getting the experience to compete in the higher level, you are right that it takes a tremendous amount of commitment and effort. Races will help, but the time to close that gap is during your weekly training.
Click to expand...

Thanks for stating your point of view. I can understand the differences in racing with pros when you are just an expert. As far as I know, USA cycling still gives the riders points "By their age and class category"" even if the racers combine racers due to, "less than 5 in a category" ruling. Unfortunately there just isn't enough women racers to fill the ranks. In my beginner year, I lined up with 3 other women. One was a junior, one a 20something, my a 30ish, and one over 40. I came in first in 6 races, but each of us "won" 1st place in our category. Hummm, how thrilling was that? At least as an expert or pro,....one can "rate" their skills and fitness to others as you race. Points will go to USA cycling for each category,..its the "status of first, second, third,..etc and it's "prize" money " that may be harder to understand. I do not believe I will get the 3rd place points (there where only 3 in our category) as I only did 2 laps. I can definitely tell you," I did not receive any award money anyhow." It was knowing that we had to do 3 laps to "really be in the race" and then not being able to do them. Yes, it is a motivator for my winter training. Hopefully next year there will be more women racing and more races to go to. Hope to see everyone at the mtbnj picnic this weekend. Let the fun (nontraining) rides begin!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom