Ask an automobile mechanic.

don

Well-Known Member
GM is completely opposite. Service procedures are so convoluted that they are impossible to follow, or just wrong. Labor times are cut so bad that we are forced to find short cuts. We can submit the errors, so they can fix the procedures, but nothing ever changes. Techs are leaving gm in droves, darn near impossible to make a living here. Who is gonna fix their electric cars they plan on selling?
GM is just as bad on the consumer side. I had 4 GM SUV/Trucks for the previous decade and almost every time bringing it in for service at a GMC or Chevy dealer it was frustrating.

The main thing that pissed me off was GM's ancient internal service records. I went to one dealer for a couple of years and then changed to another for convenience (nearer to my house). The new dealer mentioned the Suburban needed a diff service which I thought was done previously. I asked to check the past service records for that VIN which they said they couldn't as each dealer has it's own separate service tracking. I said I could go into any Best Buy in the country and they can see what I bought based on just my email. The service writer shrugged and asked for my credit card.

Then there was the extended GM factory warranty I added to a purchase of a GMC 2500. It was a nightmare to get GM to pay for anything. Calling the GM factory warranty was absolutely useless and I got stuck on a couple of items that I thought wasn't fair.

Ram isn't much better. I had my Ram 2500 in for service recently for fuel and oil/oil filter change. I gave them the VIN and scheduled for a half day drop off a week or so in advance. Checking in they had no clue the price tag of the service. I know the Cummins takes a lot of oil but when they called saying it was $900 after waiting an extra day (for fuel filters) I was not very happy. Then they send me a coupon via email a week later :slaps head: Oh - but please make sure you give us great reviews on the survey we will be sending you :rolleyes:

I have to say when I was able to speak to the tech directly (happened a couple times at one GM dealer) it was a good experience.
 

shrpshtr325

Infinite Source of Sarcasm
Team MTBNJ Halter's
i think all dealers are that way, was the same with my wifes previous hyundai every time it went it, one dealer would turn down warranty claim, go down the street to the next and they would approve it, with no clue it was brought up elsewhere. I did have a good experience with warranty work at lester glenn chrysler/dodge/ram when i was living in toms river, even tho i didnt buy the car from them, cant say how it would be now.

Theres a reason i do all my maintenance and most of the repairs on my vehicles myself, its not hard and it saves you getting screwed by the stealership service dept.


p.s. $900 for an oil change and fuel filters! :O :O OMG even if it takes 12 qts of oil (i dont think the cummins takes more than, but i could be mistaken) thats $150 in synthetic oil +filters, $200 in materials, MAX, cant take that long to do
 
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Dingo

Well-Known Member
GM is just as bad on the consumer side. I had 4 GM SUV/Trucks for the previous decade and almost every time bringing it in for service at a GMC or Chevy dealer it was frustrating.

The main thing that pissed me off was GM's ancient internal service records. I went to one dealer for a couple of years and then changed to another for convenience (nearer to my house). The new dealer mentioned the Suburban needed a diff service which I thought was done previously. I asked to check the past service records for that VIN which they said they couldn't as each dealer has it's own separate service tracking. I said I could go into any Best Buy in the country and they can see what I bought based on just my email. The service writer shrugged and asked for my credit card.

Then there was the extended GM factory warranty I added to a purchase of a GMC 2500. It was a nightmare to get GM to pay for anything. Calling the GM factory warranty was absolutely useless and I got stuck on a couple of items that I thought wasn't fair.

Ram isn't much better. I had my Ram 2500 in for service recently for fuel and oil/oil filter change. I gave them the VIN and scheduled for a half day drop off a week or so in advance. Checking in they had no clue the price tag of the service. I know the Cummins takes a lot of oil but when they called saying it was $900 after waiting an extra day (for fuel filters) I was not very happy. Then they send me a coupon via email a week later :slaps head: Oh - but please make sure you give us great reviews on the survey we will be sending you :rolleyes:

I have to say when I was able to speak to the tech directly (happened a couple times at one GM dealer) it was a good experience.
Dealers are an independent franchise, so any customer pay work is between you and that dealer. Thats why they have glove boxes, so you can stuff it full of receipts, napkins, straws,parking tickets, bed bath and beyond coupons....:) Any warranty repairs, those records are with GM, and available at all dealers.
GMPP is usually real good about paying for repairs, no questions asked. Too good sometimes, they pay for chit that was clearly abused or modified.
 

don

Well-Known Member
i think all dealers are that way, was the same with my wifes previous hyundai every time it went it, one dealer would turn down warranty claim, go down the street to the next and they would approve it, with no clue it was brought up elsewhere. I did have a good experience with warranty work at lester glenn chrysler/dodge/ram when i was living in toms river, even tho i didnt buy the car from them, cant say how it would be now.

Theres a reason i do all my maintenance and most of the repairs on my vehicles myself, its not hard and it saves you getting screwed by the stealership service dept.


p.s. $900 for an oil change and fuel filters! :O :O OMG even if it takes 12 qts of oil (i dont think the cummins takes more than, but i could be mistaken) thats $150 in synthetic oil +filters, $200 in materials, MAX, cant take that long to do
It's good to hear there are fair dealers out there - I guess you just have to find them.

I typically feel that oil changes at the dealer aren't too bad price wise. With the weather and lack of garage space I just brought it there. The oil change wasn't bad ($193 all in) but fuel filter job was $298.70 labor and over $200 for the 2 fuel filters. A quick search and I can get both Mopar brand filters for almost half that price and to swap them out doesn't look bad (even outside in my driveway). It's an every 15k mile job based on driving habits so I'll make sure to do the fuel filters myself next time. The other parts of the total was DEF (I got talked into them doing it) which they spilled on the bed and cab and a tire rotation at $20 (which is totally fair). I feel like when I called the week prior for the service that they should have had the parts and known the cost on dropoff.

The same dealer said our 1500 needed a new rear brake caliper for $700 parts and labor. NAPA had the calipers for $58 each. And for the price I'm just going to do them both along with rotors and pads ($150) so everything is new and clean while I'm in there.

Oh - the same Ram dealer sent me an email the other day saying I needed my oil changed on the 2500.
 

Dingo

Well-Known Member
It's good to hear there are fair dealers out there - I guess you just have to find them.

I typically feel that oil changes at the dealer aren't too bad price wise. With the weather and lack of garage space I just brought it there. The oil change wasn't bad ($193 all in) but fuel filter job was $298.70 labor and over $200 for the 2 fuel filters. A quick search and I can get both Mopar brand filters for almost half that price and to swap them out doesn't look bad (even outside in my driveway). It's an every 15k mile job based on driving habits so I'll make sure to do the fuel filters myself next time. The other parts of the total was DEF (I got talked into them doing it) which they spilled on the bed and cab and a tire rotation at $20 (which is totally fair). I feel like when I called the week prior for the service that they should have had the parts and known the cost on dropoff.

The same dealer said our 1500 needed a new rear brake caliper for $700 parts and labor. NAPA had the calipers for $58 each. And for the price I'm just going to do them both along with rotors and pads ($150) so everything is new and clean while I'm in there.

Oh - the same Ram dealer sent me an email the other day saying I needed my oil changed on the 2500.
My shop looses $ on every oil change. I loose $$ on every oil change. Plus tire rotations are a complete waste of my time and body. Us techs are suppose to upsell to offset the losses. I picked the wrong career, I'm a mechanic not a salesman.
 

don

Well-Known Member
Dealers are an independent franchise, so any customer pay work is between you and that dealer. Thats why they have glove boxes, so you can stuff it full of receipts, napkins, straws,parking tickets, bed bath and beyond coupons....:) Any warranty repairs, those records are with GM, and available at all dealers.
GMPP is usually real good about paying for repairs, no questions asked. Too good sometimes, they pay for chit that was clearly abused or modified.

That is my main point - why is Warranty work being recorded on the GM level and Customer Pay not? And the receipts that GM gave me back then were pretty freaking vague and confusing. I don't keep them in the car but have folders/files at the home on each vehicle. And I now ask for them to be emailed so I can have a digital copy.

Yes, GM did cover the costs when there were warranty issues on the service and parts. My issue with it was them not being able to get parts in a timely matter. I broke down an hour away on one of the issues (fuse box melted itself) and GM said they would only cover the rental car (which was thru the dealer) for one week. The part took 2-3 weeks to get. It was an utter pain in the ass being without a truck that was just 2 years old under it's original warranty as well as the GM CPO warranty I paid extra for. And got to pay an extra $1k rental for a crappy Impala. Numerous calls to the GM Warranty department were useless.
 

Johnny Utah

Well-Known Member
GM is just as bad on the consumer side. I had 4 GM SUV/Trucks for the previous decade and almost every time bringing it in for service at a GMC or Chevy dealer it was frustrating.

The main thing that pissed me off was GM's ancient internal service records. I went to one dealer for a couple of years and then changed to another for convenience (nearer to my house). The new dealer mentioned the Suburban needed a diff service which I thought was done previously. I asked to check the past service records for that VIN which they said they couldn't as each dealer has it's own separate service tracking. I said I could go into any Best Buy in the country and they can see what I bought based on just my email. The service writer shrugged and asked for my credit card.

Then there was the extended GM factory warranty I added to a purchase of a GMC 2500. It was a nightmare to get GM to pay for anything. Calling the GM factory warranty was absolutely useless and I got stuck on a couple of items that I thought wasn't fair.

Ram isn't much better. I had my Ram 2500 in for service recently for fuel and oil/oil filter change. I gave them the VIN and scheduled for a half day drop off a week or so in advance. Checking in they had no clue the price tag of the service. I know the Cummins takes a lot of oil but when they called saying it was $900 after waiting an extra day (for fuel filters) I was not very happy. Then they send me a coupon via email a week later :slaps head: Oh - but please make sure you give us great reviews on the survey we will be sending you :rolleyes:

I have to say when I was able to speak to the tech directly (happened a couple times at one GM dealer) it was a good experience.
I hate to be “that guy” but I change the oil and both fuel filters in 35 minutes with genuine Mopar filters for $190. It really isn’t that bad to do.

DA24A381-D7EB-44CF-AD58-76645FD130CD.jpeg
 

don

Well-Known Member
My shop looses $ on every oil change. I loose $$ on every oil change. Plus tire rotations are a complete waste of my time and body. Us techs are suppose to upsell to offset the losses. I picked the wrong career, I'm a mechanic not a salesman.
But why is it modeled that way? It makes no sense that you would loose money on every oil change. And why in the world do you techs need to upsell?! I think that is where the frustrations come on the consumer side.
 

don

Well-Known Member
I hate to be “that guy” but I change the oil and both fuel filters in 35 minutes with genuine Mopar filters for $190. It really isn’t that bad to do.

View attachment 150770
First off beautiful setup! What 2 vehicles are you towing with that trailer?

Is your Cummins the one with the 2 stage fuel filter? It seems it changed in 2019 and the rear one can be messy to swap out. (Although I've been covered in diesel fuel working on fuel lines for my old LR tdi's.)
 

Dingo

Well-Known Member
That is my main point - why is Warranty work being recorded on the GM level and Customer Pay not? And the receipts that GM gave me back then were pretty freaking vague and confusing. I don't keep them in the car but have folders/files at the home on each vehicle. And I now ask for them to be emailed so I can have a digital copy.

Yes, GM did cover the costs when there were warranty issues on the service and parts. My issue with it was them not being able to get parts in a timely matter. I broke down an hour away on one of the issues (fuse box melted itself) and GM said they would only cover the rental car (which was thru the dealer) for one week. The part took 2-3 weeks to get. It was an utter pain in the ass being without a truck that was just 2 years old under it's original warranty as well as the GM CPO warranty I paid extra for. And got to pay an extra $1k rental for a crappy Impala. Numerous calls to the GM Warranty department were useless.
GM has huge parts availability problems, same as the bike industry. GM's crap is made in china or other offshore countries, nothing is made in US.
No idea why customer pay is not recorded by GM, other than it would cost money, with absolutely no return on investment. Dealers would not like it either, they would have to pay, and they don't want GM nosing around in their business practices.
Your rental should have been covered by GM, the dealer can put in for no parts available, or just eat the cost of a rental.
 
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Jmann

Well-Known Member
My shop looses $ on every oil change. I loose $$ on every oil change. Plus tire rotations are a complete waste of my time and body. Us techs are suppose to upsell to offset the losses. I picked the wrong career, I'm a mechanic not a salesman.
I have a friend who’s a Toyota tech, he gets yelled at constantly for not upselling. At this point he just has the job for the benefits, makes more money doing brake jobs/easy stuff out of his home garage.
 

Dingo

Well-Known Member
But why is it modeled that way? It makes no sense that you would loose money on every oil change. And why in the world do you techs need to upsell?! I think that is where the frustrations come on the consumer side.
I get paid flat rate, as most techs do. An lof pays .3 or 18 minutes. If you can get the keys, find the car, set up on hoist, go to parts counter waiting your turn, change oil and filter, check and fill tires, top off all fluids, do a 36 point inspection, fill out the inspection sheet, fill out the repair order on line, in 18 fuckin minutes you can have my job. Oh and rotate 80 pound truck tires for an additional 12 minutes.
We have to upsell, or our families starve. Great business model isn't it?
 
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mfennell

Well-Known Member
But why is it modeled that way? It makes no sense that you would loose money on every oil change.

If they charge enough to make money, everyone brings their cars to Jiffy Lube instead where high schoolers do the work cheap. I worked at "lube it all" in Hackettstown as a kid in the mid 80s. IIRC, we made money on a marginal basis with $23.99 oil changes done by high schoolers and various shady characters but it wasn't enough to keep the lights on. We still needed to sell air filters, wipers, coolant flushes, and transmission fluid changes to be profitable.

I had naïvely assumed that the lowest/cheapest newbie got the crap work like oil changes and tire rotations. Maybe a non-certified trainee.
 

Dingo

Well-Known Member
I had naïvely assumed that the lowest/cheapest newbie got the crap work like oil changes and tire rotations. Maybe a non-certified trainee.
Some dealers do have quick lube lanes, where the newbies do the lof and such. Not at my store, they abuse the flat rate pay system by feeding all techs garbage work. We also have no min guarantee of hours. So if i make 20 hrs in a 40 hr pay period, all I see on my check is the 20. We essentially cost them nothing to stand around. Makes for a lot of disgruntled workers. The flat rate pay system took a turn for the bad, back in 2007. Before then it was easy for a good, hard working tech to make 100k.
 
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johnbryanpeters

Well-Known Member
Some dealers do have quick lube lanes, where the newbies do the lof and such. Not at my store, they abuse the flat rate pay system by feeding all techs garbage work. We also have no min guarantee of hours. So if i make 20 hrs in a 40 hr pay period, all I see on my check is the 20. We essentially cost them nothing to stand around. Makes for a lot of disgruntled workers. The flat rate pay system took a turn for the bad, back in 2007. Before then it was easy for a good, hard working tech to make 100k.
As a customer, I detest the newbie lanes.
 

Johnny Utah

Well-Known Member
First off beautiful setup! What 2 vehicles are you towing with that trailer?

Is your Cummins the one with the 2 stage fuel filter? It seems it changed in 2019 and the rear one can be messy to swap out. (Although I've been covered in diesel fuel working on fuel lines for my old LR tdi's.)
Thanks! It is two stage, so I have a filter at the engine and under the bed. I tow Jeeps mainly, mine and usually someone else’s depending on where we are going. I got tired of paying for and relying on auto carriers to get us to and from remote areas of the country. The two car means I can split driving, and generally have someone else pay the fuel and tolls since we use my equipment. E8C17AC4-1582-4C79-9FC0-127DA65AF4FF.jpeg
 
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