The Kalmyk
Well-Known Member
It will always be philosophical....Who dares make an attempt at leading the country aside from the donkey or elephant
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Article: How to Prevent the Next Wall Street Crisis
- Thread starter NJ-XC-Justin
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It will always be philosophical....Who dares make an attempt at leading the country aside from the donkey or elephant
Plenty of people. But nobody votes for them.
The Kalmyk
Well-Known Member
The Kalmyk
Well-Known Member
I agree that it's a terrible decision to bail them out. I don't like spending taxpayer money on that anymore than you do. We've got enough corporate welfare as it is without providing a golden parachute for criminal businessmen.
However, I do think regulation of the industry is an absolute necessity. You cannot expect a market to regulate itself when it's not transparent, and the instruments of debt that caused this meltdown were anything but transparent.
As an aside, some pundits are now saying that the government bailout of AIG could actually net the government a profit, since we're getting the company at a pretty big bargain, oddly enough. Time will tell. It still stinks to me, as do government subsidies for corn and agriculture, 20 billion in tax breaks for the oil industry, and all the other ways the government uses policy to interfere with the economy (from both the left and the right). Baseline regulation is one thing, but manipulation is another.
Somehow I knew you'd bring up that quote. As Norm said, a nice ideal but completely inapplicable to the modern and much more complex world we live in. I'll let you be the first one to get rid of cops, laws, military, border patrol, airport security, etc. Tell me how it goes.
MST.ESQ said:
Speaking of proper analysis, take a look at "Unequal Democracy" by Princeton professor Larry Bartels (woo hoo- this thread is relevant to NJ again!). It's a fairly even-handed, non-partisan look at politics and economics over the past 100 years in America, and the data (adjusted for outside factors as you mention) does clearly show that middle class and working families benefit much significantly more from Democratic presidencies. The rich certainly have a reason to vote Republican, as they do far better under republican presidencies.
Maybe it was incorrect of me to quote the dow- that's just a measure of the overall economy, and not a measure of real income or standard of living for working and middle class families. Still one thing is incontrovertible- the ratio of national debt to GDP has grown at a dangerous rate under recent republican presidents. Given how much our government spends that it doesn't have, is it any wonder that Wall Street is horribly over-leveraged (spending over $30 on credit for every $1 in collateral?), and that individuals do the same (buying homes they can't afford, and racking up tens if not hundreds of thousands in credit card debt?). The problem is systemic and affects every strata of the economy.
gtluke
The Moped
again man, nobody is saying get rid of cops and military. and actually aren't the border patrol volunteer for the most part? cops are hired by the towns, military aren't allowed to conduct military operations inside the US with civilians for exactly that reason.
the fundamental problem is that the federal government provided the liquidity for these companies to do what they did. keep them out and it won't be their problem. i will support you if you think transparency is a problem. okay thats find, some disclosure should be in order. deceiving someone is not a freedom.
and i don't care if the goventment could make a trillion dollars running one of these firms, its none of their business and it is not part of the government to run a business, no matter how profitable it may be. we are capitalists, we should not be partaking in socialist business takeovers.
the fundamental problem is that the federal government provided the liquidity for these companies to do what they did. keep them out and it won't be their problem. i will support you if you think transparency is a problem. okay thats find, some disclosure should be in order. deceiving someone is not a freedom.
and i don't care if the goventment could make a trillion dollars running one of these firms, its none of their business and it is not part of the government to run a business, no matter how profitable it may be. we are capitalists, we should not be partaking in socialist business takeovers.
gtluke
The Moped
he also warned in 1966:
"under the gold standard, a free banking system stands as the protector of an economy's stability and balanced growth... The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit... In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation.
"under the gold standard, a free banking system stands as the protector of an economy's stability and balanced growth... The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit... In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation.
You're the one who brought up trading liberty for safety. I guess you're willing to do it in the financial markets, but not in the social and political sphere? My point only was that we all make the choice to trade liberty for safety every day, in public life as well as in our finances. And there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone's comfort level with risk is different, and where we end up on that continuum between total freedom and complete safety is something that we negotiate through politics.
I actually agree with everything you say there. I've always thought that the government backing up Freddie and Fannie's loans was a sham, and the government should not be running businesses, financing business, bailing out businesses or competing with businesses.
Speaking of, looks like McCain's now in favor of a new government agency to oversee the financial sector:
"That agency, a Mortgage and Financial Institutions trust, would work with the private sector and regulators to identify institutions that are weak and fix them before they go broke."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/19/campaign.wrap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
I can't believe a guy is running as a republican and talking about new government agencies to oversee and prop up failing companies. It's like we've entered bizarro world or something...
gtluke
The Moped
i'm cool with thatOK, it's Nixon's fault
gtluke
The Moped
i never said i was okay doing it in the financial sector.
and like i said, 50 years ago mccain would have been a left wing democrat and JFK today would be a republican.
gtluke
The Moped
also
please note that i have a harsh way of expressing myself. in reality i don't care if you are union or are a socialist. i may pick on you for it but don't take it personally. i would never take your political standpoints as character, and i won't judge you on your views.
the guy that got me into biking is actually a crazy socialist. i mean like he gets socialist magazines in the mail. haha. when we talk politics we digg on each other but it by no means prevents us from being friends. i love the guy, he just has weird political views.
so don't take my harshness as seriousness.
please note that i have a harsh way of expressing myself. in reality i don't care if you are union or are a socialist. i may pick on you for it but don't take it personally. i would never take your political standpoints as character, and i won't judge you on your views.
the guy that got me into biking is actually a crazy socialist. i mean like he gets socialist magazines in the mail. haha. when we talk politics we digg on each other but it by no means prevents us from being friends. i love the guy, he just has weird political views.
so don't take my harshness as seriousness.
The Kalmyk
Well-Known Member
Justin what hell did you start here
The Kalmyk
Well-Known Member
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
MixMastaMM
Team Bulldog Rider
Justin what hell did you start here
Its called the run and gun. Stir up the bees when you have nothing better to do.
Panhead
Well-Known Member
He at least would have been pushed out of the republican party.
I disagree that democrats have gotten more liberal. I think the Democrats and Republicans have generally morphed into parties in the middle that believe in the same vision of bloated government, but with different priorities and constituents. They all believe in spending money like there's no tomorrow, but they differ on what they want to spend it on (military vs. social programs). They like to claim to lower taxes, they just argue who about *who* should get the tax breaks.
The average net worth of a US Senator is well over a million bucks, and the top 4 wealthiest senators (with net worths between $43 mil and $219 mil) are all Democrats. They didn't get there by being socialists.
But yeah, where the heck is Justin?