Jshort’s bike thread

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Race your strengths. And sometimes don’t be afraid to give up a few seconds to save yourself minutes. That first descent was a great opportunity to either make up 5 seconds on the lead group or drill your rear wheel, get a flat, and lose the race

I think my strengths include being able to ride the rocks and navigate those rocky downhills smoothly without fear of a flat. I never really felt like I was taking a risk.

If I’m going to try to keep up with guys that have more aerobic fitness, I really need to capitalize on those sections of the race. 5 seconds here, 10 seconds there, etc…

But I know these races are won on the climbs. Especially this one.
 

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
Unless I'm doing a race that @GratefulRider has done and can stalk the climb times, I usually race endurance races like an asshole; go out like a XC race, fade, die, and just hold on for dear life. I hope that the people behind me at hour 4-5 are just doing the same pace as me, but the effort I put in at the beginning, the gap stays the same. Especially with MTB, there isn't benefit of being in a group except for morale. If you can follow a wheel up a long climb (like it sounds like Ringwood was) It certainly helps.

If you have another one on your calendar, I'm curious to see how you fair... Enjoying 2.0 germy.
 

UtahJoe

Team Workhorse
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I give you guys props for doing any more than 1 lap of that loop....I was throwing down every last match I had on that long climb to skylands and thinking: ....Man, Jeff and Jeremy are going to do this like 3 times...NOPE!!!!!!!!!!
I usually race endurance races like an asshole; go out like a XC race, fade, die, and just hold on for dear life.
This is why I dont race endurance.....every time someone tells me....oh you just take it easy the whole time....I have never experienced this a single time in any endurance race I have done. XC race until I die, then limp to the finish line.
 

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
This is why I dont race endurance.....every time someone tells me....oh you just take it easy the whole time....I have never experienced this a single time in any endurance race I have done. XC race until I die, then limp to the finish line.
you can do this for a 100 mile race too, it's just as effective LOL
 

1speed

Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
@jShort - I get that if you've got goals that include "better than fourth" then you're going to focus on the changes you need to make to do better, but you really should take a moment and recognize that you actually did pretty good there. Jeff & Pearl are right - they've both a done a lot of longer stuff and they both know their shit. (I think Jeff is probably pretty close to having done every endurance race there is at this point, so there 's a source of knowledge there for sure.) I can't offer any thoughts in terms of numbers - I've never used data during a race to tell me how I'm doing. I could give my reasons for that, but they wouldn't and shouldn't matter to you. The only thing I read that I think you might want to work on is the statement you made about cramping coming on suddenly. I don't know if that played out exactly the way you described it, but that really shouldn't happen. If you can't tell ahead of time when cramps are coming, then either something is off physically or you're ignoring the cues. Managing effort and how your body responds to what you're asking of it is really the only difference between an XC race and and endurance race. And knowing what to do when the first signs of cramping appear is one of the most basic things to learn because it happens to everyone who goes for endurance sooner or later. For me, that has always been about moving my body more - more time out of the saddle, slowing cadence, stuff like that - I look at it like this: if I detect those first twinges that cramping is on its way, my entire focus becomes about how long I can put them off. That's all. And that doesn't necessarily mean slowing down. It just means finding different positions to cycle through (e.g., more forward on the nose of your saddle, then out of the saddle, then sit back further, then stand again, then repeat.) The idea isn't to slow down, it's to distribute the effort around to different muscles to give all of them chance to relax at least a little for a bit. If you can do that and keep them at bay for even 20 minutes, then if you drink or eat enough in that time you might even just put them off entirely. In the end, it's just about keeping them at bay for as long as you can. And sometimes it won't work - like if you're body isn't quite up to the effort that day, there may be nothing you can do to stop it from rebelling against your effort. But you can almost always at least hold them off for a while if you're paying attention.

But, seriously - if cramping because you are going out too hard is the biggest issue you are having after only recently starting endurance stuff, then you're in pretty good shape. You absolutely will work that one out.
 

The Kalmyk

Well-Known Member
Im not sure how much you are committed to long distance but might want to consider a pyramidal approach. The distribution focuses on aerobic pacing. Steve Neal from the cycling gym promotes this tremendously. He uses the term Fat Max Power. Which is essentially your power produces in high Zone 2 and low Zone 3. He focuses on mountain bikers.

In the Faster podcast he talks about your experience almost to the tee. Being confident in your pacing, letting sprints get away, etc.

 

GratefulRider

Active Member
.79 is good. Dial it back a touch in the 1st hour. Race full gas in the last and you’re at a .85 (not sure if that math works but you get the idea). Alternatively, train more or get a faster bike. ;)
Seriously though, Nice work. You can lock this thread or go back to discussing the ideal garmin mounts.

Also great to catch a glimpse of @utah talking trash while I’m turning laps. You guys make mtbing great again. At least NJ mtbing.
 

xc62701

Well-Known Member
I usually race endurance races like an asshole; go out like a XC race, fade, die, and just hold on for dear life. I hope that the people behind me at hour 4-5 are just doing the same pace as me, but the effort I put in at the beginning, the gap stays the same.
This! I always feel that some effort at the start of the race helps define the tone of the race. You don't want to get jammed in a bottleneck somewhere so it pays to put in that extra effort to create gaps and just hope they stick. Of course this has worked and failed, but for the most part that's what I do. I've looked down at the 2-3 hour mark of a 100 miler realizing I'm still pinning it everywhere and haven't focused on hydration or nutrition. That sucks! Then it's damage control mode.
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Are you doing any long training rides at all?
Nope. Just trainer workouts so far. Obviously I need to work longer rides into the routine, but so far the time just does not exist. I can make it work to an extent (I think I already have), but I agree with where I think you are going that the lack of long training rides is a gap.

I usually race endurance races like an asshole; go out like a XC race, fade, die, and just hold on for dear life.
That sounds terrible. I'll remember to never follow your advise lol. Maybe you should let the leaders go and ride your own pace and not die / hold on for dear life.

.79 is good. Dial it back a touch in the 1st hour.
lol. Thanks Jeff. :)
You guys make mtbing great again. At least NJ mtbing.
Races are better when there is Orange and Blue there. At the least, we have somewhere to come talk about it !


The only thing I read that I think you might want to work on is the statement you made about cramping coming on suddenly.
I think I knew it was coming on, but I may have just ignored the signs. In my not so vast experience, proper fueling and not going into the red keep the cramps away. There is actually no scientific data on what causes cramps. There are many theories, but nothing has been proven. Pretty crazy.
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
This! I always feel that some effort at the start of the race helps define the tone of the race. You don't want to get jammed in a bottleneck somewhere so it pays to put in that extra effort to create gaps and just hope they stick. Of course this has worked and failed, but for the most part that's what I do. I've looked down at the 2-3 hour mark of a 100 miler realizing I'm still pinning it everywhere and haven't focused on hydration or nutrition. That sucks! Then it's damage control mode.
In an endurance race...have you ever tried to let the leaders go, and just focus on riding your own pace?

In a 90 minute XC race, I get it. My step by step goals are:
Try to take the holeshot.
Set a ridiculous pace.
Get some separation.
Start passing guys in other categories to create obstacles for competitors.
Recover and maintain the lead.
Finish before I pop.

Seems so easy when I write it out like that.... Till some ringer shows up and destroys the whole group. lol
 

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
That sounds terrible. I'll remember to never follow your advise lol. Maybe you should let the leaders go and ride your own pace and not die / hold on for dear life.
It has worked well in the past, trying to think of MTB success stories, I podiumed 6 hours of warrior creek like this :p
Hell, that is how iIalways raced SSaP and that is almost considered an endurance event by todays standards, isn't it?

I feel a lot of these endurance events start just like those threshold ladder workouts on TrainerRoad, starts with an extremely hard sprint effort, then threshold, then sitting right at or below FTP.
 

xc62701

Well-Known Member
In an endurance race...have you ever tried to let the leaders go, and just focus on riding your own pace?

In a 90 minute XC race, I get it. My step by step goals are:
Try to take the holeshot.
Set a ridiculous pace.
Get some separation.
Start passing guys in other categories to create obstacles for competitors.
Recover and maintain the lead.
Finish before I pop.

Seems so easy when I write it out like that.... Till some ringer shows up and destroys the whole group. lol
Nope. I always chase until I cannot. Then I ride my own pace.
 

xc62701

Well-Known Member
In an endurance race...have you ever tried to let the leaders go, and just focus on riding your own pace?

It’s funny. I had to do this by choice for the cat1/2 race Saturday. I had nothing for the holeshot so I just sat back and pedaled. I went from next to last to 8 of 15. Maybe I should try that strategy.
 

Magic

Formerly 1sh0t1b33r
Team MTBNJ Halter's
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I think I got these on Harry's rec? I feel like these helped a lot when I did Iron Furnace, Monster Cross, and even CX. This makes up for me not ever being prepared for any race or do anything with nutrition.
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
View attachment 183187
I think I got these on Harry's rec? I feel like these helped a lot when I did Iron Furnace, Monster Cross, and even CX. This makes up for me not ever being prepared for any race or do anything with nutrition.

i get salt from my mix and gels. I think this is more placebo tbh. But placebo works, so I’m not discounting it. I’ve also heard ginger candy can remedy cramps. More mind over matter stuff.
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
It’s funny. I had to do this by choice for the cat1/2 race Saturday. I had nothing for the holeshot so I just sat back and pedaled. I went from next to last to 8 of 15. Maybe I should try that strategy.
Honestly, the first time I ever tried this approach was mayhem a couple weeks ago. I had zero expectations for that race and I went in with it set my mind to try this strategy. It actually worked really well, and I was reeling in people on the last two laps.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Nope. Just trainer workouts so far. Obviously I need to work longer rides into the routine, but so far the time just does not exist. I can make it work to an extent (I think I already have), but I agree with where I think you are going that the lack of long training rides is a gap.

Yeah, time is hard to come by. Your kids are at the age where there's plenty of time so long as you give up sleep entirely. It is not as extreme as this statement, but how well do you think a CX racer would do if he/she only ever did 15-20 minute workouts? It's not so bad as that, but your margin for error is like razor thin. You see some of these guys on Strava. They churning out massive rides.

You can/should try the pickle juice thing. If you read up on it, it's not the physical attributes that prevent you from cramping. It's actually working on some level where it tells the brain to not fire cramp signals. That last sentence is not scientific. But that's the gist of it.

I read recently that pink placebo pills work better than blue, or vice versa. If you're going that route, I guess figure out which color is the one that works and stick with it. The amazing thing that I find about the study of placebos is that when you tell the patient they are getting a placebo, the shit still works.
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
The amazing thing that I find about the study of placebos is that when you tell the patient they are getting a placebo, the shit still works.

That is some amazing shit. That’s why I think the ginger Candy would work. Just a shock to your system after drinking sugar water for 2 hours.
 
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