I love America and Americans but the "American Dream" died...for the most part.

JPark

JPark

Well-Known Member
clarkenstein said:
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As much as I respect agent Smith as a computer app from a SciFi movie, this is simply not true.
If you put a herd of goats or sheep on an island or other confined place with NO Predators, they will eventually breed and graze until all their pastures are gone and would eventually starve.
This would be true of any animal on the planet.
 
T

Tbof

Active Member
Pr
pooriggy said:
I would venture to say they make between 40-60K/yr. They are doing well on this job because it's a County(govt) job, they get paid prevailing wage.

You talk as if 40K is peanuts, and for most it is given the way they spend it. However for those willing to sacrifice and get by with less to provide a better future it's a chance.

I listen to stories from my mother on how they grew up and how little they had. Her grandparents came over from Poland, it was a hard life but every generation had it better then the previous and hardships lessened.

This thread is going down the rabbit hole of capitalism vrs socialism and I don't expect to change anyone's ideology. Every system has flaws and people get left behind, we are not perfect and no system of government with economic policies can provide a utopian country.
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Prevailing wage is a scam that the state doesn’t even enforce or keep tabs on contractors. Workers cash checks and give the employee back money. Or they work 80 hours and get paid 40 at the prevailing wage rate. Some of the bigger company’s even house them and they pay rent to them. It’s modern day slavery and if you don’t think so your wrong.
 
clarkenstein

clarkenstein

JORBA Board Member/Chapter Leader
JORBA.ORG
JPark said:
As much as I respect agent Smith as a computer app from a SciFi movie, this is simply not true.
If you put a herd of goats or sheep on an island or other confined place with NO Predators, they will eventually breed and graze until all their pastures are gone and would eventually starve.
This would be true of any animal on the planet.
Click to expand...
Does this mean we need human-seeking predators to keep us in check?

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Patrick

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
JPark said:
As much as I respect agent Smith as a computer app from a SciFi movie, this is simply not true.
If you put a herd of goats or sheep on an island or other confined place with NO Predators, they will eventually breed and graze until all their pastures are gone and would eventually starve.
This would be true of any animal on the planet.
Click to expand...

i'm with rick - before it is gone, some would starve, some would live, the grass would come back.
the cycle could oscillate, and various years would produce different results (a drought for example)
but overall it would reach a balance

the fact that they can't leave, or import more grass is the major difference.

Tbof said:
Pr

Prevailing wage is a scam that the state doesn’t even enforce or keep tabs on contractors. Workers cash checks and give the employee back money. Or they work 80 hours and get paid 40 at the prevailing wage rate. Some of the bigger company’s even house them and they pay rent to them. It’s modern day slavery and if you don’t think so your wrong.
Click to expand...

There are college educated examples of this too, but it is a temporary means to an end for legal workers (temp migrant), or H1->greencard track.
If Illegally here, the employer can get in a rash of trouble - jail being one result.

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On the cultural thing: i've had this discussion with @extremedave - different cultures have very different views.
Understanding them is not racism. The people from India who own the convenience stores and gas stations
are doing what has been ingrained in them since birth as success - and it is. Thing is with India, just because people
are from the same country, doesn't mean there aren't cultural differences - some are vestiges of the caste system.
(remember, american kids learned about that in middle school?) Like American Law has non-discrimination clauses (gender,skin,religion),
Indian law specifically mentions no discrimination based on caste - and has since 1950ish.
Edit: I've grouped Pakistan with India - religions difference, with cultural parallels. It was the same country up until 1947.

Having all these different cultural skills and goals is an advantage. It makes for a stronger America.

i'd also say much of the behavior that might be considered cultural, is actually survivor driven.
it gets reinforced because of success. need alternatives that contribute to the greater good.
 
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mntal

mntal

Active Member
cassinonorth said:
Guess this is the logic that allows people to continually vote against your interests. Guess what? You're never getting to the right side. Ever. You can work all the 70 hour weeks you want. Unless your dad owns an emerald mine, your parents can get the board of IBM's attention, or maybe a small 60 million dollar loan from your daddy.
You're more likely to make the NFL than to become a billionaire. The deck is hilariously stacked against you and me.

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These are excuses. I came from nothing with no connections and have done pretty damn well. Perhaps use the energy you expend to make excuses and put that energy towards production.
 
Dave Taylor

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
mntal said:
These are excuses. I came from nothing with no connections and have done pretty damn well. Perhaps use the energy you expend to make excuses and put that energy towards production.
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What is your definition of nothing? Honestly, most of us are livi g off so e sort of “old money” as we have either had a helping hand or inhertited from our parents. Maybe just a house, a car or whatever but rags to riches really doesn’t happen often.
 
Fire Lord Jim

Fire Lord Jim

Well-Known Member
Dave Taylor said:
What is your definition of nothing? Honestly, most of us are livi g off so e sort of “old money” as we have either had a helping hand or inhertited from our parents. Maybe just a house, a car or whatever but rags to riches really doesn’t happen often.
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I'm in agreement with mntal. I did get $8000 from my parents in my 50s as an inheritance. Does that count as old money? Four boys to a bedroom, no financial help of any sort prior to that inheritance. Some days there was enough food on the table, some not. Bread soaked in gravy served as dinner. Bags of used clothes left on our doorstep was like Christmas for us. But, none of that kept me from hustling several jobs—delivering newspapers, picking wild berries and selling them to a farm stand, and stocking shelves at stores, all while paying my way through school.

I agree that rags to riches doesn't happen often. I disagree as to why. I continually see proof from those who have done it. It is unfortunate that few are willing to put in the long term effort to achieve it. It's not hard to do, but it is not fun.
 
mntal

mntal

Active Member
Dave Taylor said:
What is your definition of nothing? Honestly, most of us are livi g off so e sort of “old money” as we have either had a helping hand or inhertited from our parents. Maybe just a house, a car or whatever but rags to riches really doesn’t happen often.
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I neither had a helping hand, nor "old money" but that's nice that so many of you have.
 
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