What’s “easier”, XC or Endurance?

goldsbar said:
Serious endurance athletes don't just do zone 2 rides. They do all the intervals anyone training for a shorter event would do PLUS all of the distance. With decent genetics you can do a pretty good job of XC racing with 6-8 hours/week of training. You can't fake endurance. You need to do the same exact training plus another 6+ hours of easier stuff.

For me, actually racing (shorter) endurance is easier because there's no way I can keep up a race pace for over a couple of hours as I fall into the 6-8 hours/week bucket. For some 3+ hour event, I need to be at conversational pace most of the time or I'm going to get some serious cramps. Even at that, my body will be shot at the end.
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You’re right about intervals. I do plenty on top of the other stuff. I think the hours per week is not as important though. Certain zone rides, nutrition and teaching your body how to work on long rides is more important. I PRd at W101 last year by a good amount and I was hurt 2 months earlier. I resorted to about 1/2-3/4 of the volune I was used too. I think for XC maybe you need to be more specific with training. With endurance you just try to get your tss as high as possible before a taper.
 
When I was into running, one of the more well respected coaches/authors emphasized a funnel approach. If you wanted to run a marathon, you'd still do things like 400m/800m intervals along with your slower distance runs at first. As you got closer to the event, you'd focus more on the distance. Conversely, if you were more focused on 5ks, you'd start out similarly, but limit the distance work towards the end.

The difference with running is that some people seem to have an ability to get fast by just doing easy runs - because there really is no such thing. In cycling, just easy riding won't get you anywhere (genetically blessed excluded).
 
pixychick said:
If some people do too much distance training, they can get slower in XC. I have seen it happen. I am not sure why it happens and why it does not apply to everyone.
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Fast Twitch/Slow Twitch. I may be the Prime exmple of a competitve Cat1 XC Racer turned the other way around. Now I get dropped on most MTB rides.
 
goldsbar said:
When I was into running, one of the more well respected coaches/authors emphasized a funnel approach. If you wanted to run a marathon, you'd still do things like 400m/800m intervals along with your slower distance runs at first. As you got closer to the event, you'd focus more on the distance. Conversely, if you were more focused on 5ks, you'd start out similarly, but limit the distance work towards the end.

The difference with running is that some people seem to have an ability to get fast by just doing easy runs - because there really is no such thing. In cycling, just easy riding won't get you anywhere (genetically blessed excluded).
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On the can of worms I opened. Ha. So I typically steer clear of tempo riding. Almost all z2/z1(this builds your BASE speed). I don’t do any intervals(structured) until 4-6 weeks before my first event. I will start 6 weeks out if I do a 100 miler that requires long pulls(shen, wilderness). I’ll start 3-4 weeks out with almost all tope end short 1-3 min intervals/hill repeats if it’s a punchy 100 miler with short steel climbs like Mohican. This allows me to repeatedly hammer those short climbs and use my base pace in between.

One dilemma since hurting my back is I have been riding gears more. This hurts my SS climbing significantly because I am not using muscle tension rides on my quads. I feel way more fit from it but my climbing power definitely lacks. I need to fix this. SS is not ded.
 
jimvreeland said:
Fast Twitch/Slow Twitch. I may be the Prime exmple of a competitve Cat1 XC Racer turned the other way around. Now I get dropped on most MTB rides.
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Do you feel it’s just a difference in training? I feel with proper interval work and more trail riding like allaire the fast twitch stuff can come back. Sort of the reason behind my post. Endurance is “easy” for me because it’s easy to put in long lazy miles. I have gotten progressively better at endurance racing however by adding more strength training and intervals into the mix.
 
Dave Taylor said:
Do you feel it’s just a difference in training? I feel with proper interval work and more trail riding like allaire the fast twitch stuff can come back. Sort of the reason behind my post. Endurance is “easy” for me because it’s easy to put in long lazy miles. I have gotten progressively better at endurance racing however by adding more strength training and intervals into the mix.
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The makeup of you muscles actually changes. But we're talking about 2 different types of endurance here. NUE races are only just inside the Endurance category which still use a mix of XC efforts.
 
jimvreeland said:
The makeup of you muscles actually changes. But we're talking about 2 different types of endurance here. NUE races are only just inside the Endurance category which still use a mix of XC efforts.
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Right, but technically XC is an endurance sport too. Do you think you could get it back is the question?
 
Dave Taylor said:
Right, but technically XC is an endurance sport too. Do you think you could get it back is the question?
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I think training for XC is easier. Basically a 10 hour week vs 20+ hours. Interval work is about the same but the Volume at higher efforts for Endurance Racing is tough. Like 3 or 4 hour Tempo rides are a lot harder than doing 2x20s as an easy example. Training for Endurance Racing seldom involves random "riding around" as most would think.

I also think you can fake XC fitness easier as the races are so short.
 
Dave Taylor said:
One dilemma since hurting my back is I have been riding gears more. This hurts my SS climbing significantly because I am not using muscle tension rides on my quads. I feel way more fit from it but my climbing power definitely lacks. I need to fix this. SS is not ded.
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I obviously don't know jack shit about training or being fast, but can't you just ride your geared bike like a singlespeed sometimes? Just stand and hammer some climbs like you're on an SS?
 
Pearl said:
100% this


ITS NOT THE SAMEEEE MANNNNN
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JimN said:
I obviously don't know jack shit about training or being fast, but can't you just ride your geared bike like a singlespeed sometimes? Just stand and hammer some climbs like you're on an SS?
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Yes you can. That’s the fast way to do it. Stand and mash the climbs and use a big gear to carry you in between without mashing.
 
But what about spinning at a high cadence and climbing just as fast with a geared biek
 
jimvreeland said:
I think training for XC is easier. Basically a 10 hour week vs 20+ hours. Interval work is about the same but the Volume at higher efforts for Endurance Racing is tough. Like 3 or 4 hour Tempo rides are a lot harder than doing 2x20s as an easy example. Training for Endurance Racing seldom involves random "riding around" as most would think.

I also think you can fake XC fitness easier as the races are so short.
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Much easier when your max amount of riding time is about 10 hrs a week... And if you race anything other than pro, you can fake your way thru... I mean you probably won't win, but good bike handling and a good first lap can actually make a difference.

XC is also far easier mentally... Other people to battle with, more adrenaline.... You need to be able to handle some dark places to do what Jim and other endurance racers do. I have done just enough 5+ hour races to know that after that long, I stop caring
 
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