Jungle Habitat race course?

good debate here. I see where both sides are coming from.
But it is a race, and the object is to finish as fast as you can. You have to have a superior fitness level to win in the more advanced classes. If a guy is so fast, he can get off his bike and hike a techy section and not lose time, good for him.

I think a reason the promoters don't put the most technical sections in a race is because they don't want people killing themselves. In a race you are more likely to take a chance (if you have any competitiveness in you at all) and those chances could result in an ambulance ride. Nobody wants that.
 
I wrestle with this subject too...

I still race cat 3 but have worked veree hard on fitness level and technical skills. I pre rode the course 2-1/2 times and find it challenging on both levels if one is to clear everee section and remain in motion ON the bike.
The brain part of me realizes it is more efficient to jump off and run some spots than to remain in the saddle and grind through them where others cant, but that is what the ego and sense of personal challenge want.
For me its a weighted decision based on whats important... placing well or performing well in a sport I love.
 
I think what Nomad and Wilks are saying is that they want to race were a Fox 36 front fork would be in use. I also get that they are not as fast as the guy next to them and that is why they want rocks and logs to slow them down. By doing that they would have a much better chance at winning.

IMO you should never run your bike. It is a mountain biking race not a run-a-biking race.
 
Well said John, I feel the same way. The only time I get aggravated is when a guy blows past me on a fire road only to jump off and walk up the middle of a trail where I have to stop or alter my line. But I'm movin up to sport for this one so I'll just be tryin to keep up. Should be fun with the rain!
 
j_short said:
But it is a race, and the object is to finish as fast as you can.
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Exactly.

lou_b_83 said:
It is a mountain biking race not a run-a-biking race.
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Not exactly.

I'm defending the "roadies" here but the reality is that I'm surely above average in technical sections. I get off when my legs are screaming and cannot go further, or when I bork a section. When you add speed and rocks, sometimes you get off line. Fast, and violently. I'm not going to clip in right in the middle of a rock garden. Are you guys saying you do that? Or do you go and start it over until you clean it?

If this is an issue, why are you guys racing?
 
I have seen Norm in the tech and yes he has skillz, also worth note as witnessed at SSpolloza where you broke away for the win was in fact a dismount and run past a clogged uphill right? Sometimes making the right decisions at key moments is the difference to winning and losing...
 
There is a HUGE difference between racing and ride any trail. In fact, Norm and I were casually riding thruogh Warthog some 10 days ago and were chit-chatting about how easy it felt. Fast forward 3 or 4 days later. I put the hammer down (and I can) and the trail completely changes.

(Maybe some regurgatation here) Cross country racing (at the highest level) takes a combination of fitness and skill. Anyone winning at the Pro/Open level or CAT1 is a skilled rider. No not Jeff Lenosky skilled, but skilled enough to school 90% of CAT2 riders and I would think all CAT3 riders.

Personally, I always try to ride everything on a course. If I'm not riding, I'm cooked or broke. And when you do get to the front you can have some fun like this.
http://nathancrisman.smugmug.com/Sp...bitat-ExpertPro/6033837_LUCed#377763514_C6XWT
 
I think that they have a beef with people that don't even try. You know the type. He rolles up to a log at 20mps. Slams on the brakes (making everone behind him stop). Gets off the bike, jumps over the log, gets back on the bike and goes. Now everone that was behind him has to do the same due to having no speed.

No we do not go back and do it again if we don't make it. That would just be silly in a race. BUT we do go back and do it again on our normal rides.

We are not racing. We would love to but the guys out there just smoke us with the speed. We pass them as they are walking down hills and the rocks but they smoke us on the up hills (with no rocks) and fire roads. BUT again it is a race. You do what you got to do to win (Even run your bike).

Good luck to all the racers. The course is fun and fast. The guys did a great job on marking it out.

It will be a hard course to pass people. The single track is tight.
 
lou_b_83 said:
I think that they have a beef with people that don't even try. You know the type. He rolles up to a log at 20mps. Slams on the brakes (making everone behind him stop). Gets off the bike, jumps over the log, gets back on the bike and goes. Now everone that was behind him has to do the same due to having no speed.
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Yes this used to be a problem. But then start faster and get ahead of that guy. Also, like Matty suggests, know the course and when it makes sense to unclip. Know in advance where weak riders are going to unclip. I'll give you all a tip for tomorrow. The first little short uphill section that jumps up where Otter Slide ends will be congested. If you're not in the front, roll up to it with the knowledge you will get off. Jump off, run past the mess, and make up 7 spots right there. Just after that, where the road drops into the rocky section (Tiger pit or something?) you will very possibly gum up again. Be ready to dismount and make up another few spots. Then the log in the pavement is another one. After that, it's a race of attrition.
 
I am not trying to pick an argument just simply voicing an opinion...and I have already said my technical skills are average at best but when I have raced my fat ar$e I do get frustrated when the leg shavers get off their bikes without attempting a rock garden or a log over causing carnage behind them and making me get off my bike for no reason other than the fact that the person in front of me isn't prepared to even try and ride the course or complete a section that requires a modicum of skill. I also laugh as I always get smoked on a climb or fire road only to have that same person ride their brakes on every downhill. If the "roadies" worked on their tech skills they would be pro I suppose. I also find comments by pros like Geoff Kabush very interesting as they are continually complaining that the world cup XC courses are not technical enough. I admire all of you who are super fit and that have "engines" beyond my comprehension and many of you are extremely strong techy riders but there are plenty that compete that seem to have no interest in trying to clear any section that has any technical component to it. Again, I have no interest in racing downhill or super d or trials but I do think for a change it would be fun to have a race on terrain similar to yellow trail in Ramapo / Ringwood since it is more technical than your average XC race course.
 
I can throw down through the rocks with the best of them- XC or DH- and I thought the JH course was a great mix of technical rocks and tight corners. Anyone who wants a more technical course than that doesn't race much. I'm surprised no one has mentioned all the cornering- it's a very important mountain bike "skill" (as important as ability through the rocks), and the hundreds and hundreds of tight linked turns at JH really put a rider's cornering ability to the test (more so than some of the other courses in the series). If you can't carry momentum through turns and put the power down out of corners, you'll lose a few seconds on every turn that will turn into minutes per lap.

Very cool course. Can't wait to race it tomorrow.
 
I'm not making any apologies now for my 'racing' tomorrow. That's why I'm in Cat3 30-39. I know my abilities. I might have to walk, hike, or find a spot for me to clip in. I'm doing this for fun, I have a family and a morgage. I want to be able to ride the next day. I guess I kind of made an excuse-apology.🙄 Good luck to everyone.
 
I dont like to make alot of noise here because I have not earned it ....YET I am simply a Cat 3 racer . I have seen Norm , Graveyardman and a bunch of other fast guys ride and they certainly know how to fly with tremendous ability and make it look very easy. I dont know if they are " Roadies" but anyone who can get to that level of fitness has busted there butt and made many sacrifise`s to get there has my respect because I see how hard I worked this year and I am no were near that level ......Yet. IMO my personal expierience with unclipping during a race is at times if I am climbing on my bike at the same speed as someone walking up a hill I find that I actually use more energy which is not good for the long run. You use differant muscle`s when off your bike than when on it so my body actually welcomes the change for the short time it takes to get up the hill. Norm brought up a good point, why not unclip to get around a traffic jam? When they say go my objective is to get to the finish line while racing a clean race as soon as possible, period. The fast guys are fast for a reason and for the most part have been racing for a lot longer than I have so they have my respect walking up that hill or not.
 
Today at Jungle .. Epic Fail:

jh.20090926.001.jpg
 
:cry: whaaa, i'm slow. i want more technical features in races so that i can still clear them slower than all the fast guys. :cry:
 
I Just got back from the jungle, and I think its a great mix. Maybe a little too many fire roads, but I think thats just the way the park is. I dont mind it.

Now if you'll excuse me im going to look for my hacksaw to trim an inch off each side of my handlebars...
 
Course is bumpy, very bumpy. I am riding a rigid, can I get a 10 minute handicap? There are to many rocks, lets pave the place! I love the Jungle.
 
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