I love America and Americans but the "American Dream" died...for the most part.

Mahnken

Well-Known Member
Your just supporting my thoughts. Theoretically taxes shouuld help but this country is so corrupt that the taxes go elsewhere. I am not by any means a socialist or a conservative but take Germany for example they have lots of good things going for them. They have some sort of capitalism some sort of Socialism and it works, the people are taken care of. When you start a new job in Germany one month paid vacation is standard when you have a child you get one through two years paid maternity leave. All I’m saying is it doesn’t have to be as bad as it is in America with the separation between the poor and the rich. The American dream of getting married having two kids having her own house by 30 years old is it really a dream when our divorce rate is so high in foreclosure rates are so high ask yourself be honest.
Right now the government works for the wealthy, it would be great if that shifted more towards the majority of people.
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
If you believe that those born poor have to stay poor, Google Dave Ramsey. He has a proven formula taking people from less than poor to millionaire. He is harsh: no consumer debt, no 30 year mortgage, eat rice and beans, drive a $1000 car, live like no one else today, so you can live and give like no one else tomorrow. This isn't the anecdotal data of I know one, you know one, instead empirical data.

To those who think that taxing for providing education, I would point you to your property tax bill and your compulsory 12 years of education. We have already taxed, educated, and somehow the students weren't taught. A government that won't make a budget, that hands out $600 checks, that has shown its incompetence in everything other than blowing stuff up, when asked to solve this problem may try, but is not going to get it close to right.
I know who Dave Ramsey is. Great system for those who grew up with nothing and have access to his books. But it still doesn’t tell the story of how many people are living off old money in this country. People with old money didn’t “make it”. Their parents and grandparents made it. What really is sickening to me is trust fund babies. They are all set up to not work a day in their life.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
You make it sound like walmart can't afford to pay it's employees more, which is completely false. Their margins aren't as razor thin as you believe they are. It's said that when a new walmart opens their doors for the first time, they already have a months payroll ready to go just from promotional fees that they charge their sellers. Part of their low prices is forcing their suppliers to reduce their prices, which they do by moving jobs out of america to China where workers are making $0.25 an hour. And they run like a consignment shop, the sellers take all the risk, walmart doesn't pay them until the products are sold at retail, and they don't pay for returns. They also run far more efficiently than most other businesses, partly by putting a lot of the logistics in the hands of their suppliers. They can easily pay more, they just don't want to. Profit is king.

I don't disagree with this -

other than they don't force their suppliers to do anything. business/capitalism. sign the contract or don't.
not paying for returns? of course not. you as the consumer don't want to pay for something you return.
Every supplier estimates a defect rate and it is accounted for in the margins. Returns is a top of the income statement entry,
as it helps judge the health of a business. terms of payment are contracted - cash flow is also part of establishing profit margins.

(my main client pays net 90 days - with monthly invoicing. so the work done on Jan 2, invoiced on Feb 1, gets paid on May 1st.)

just looking at this https://corporate.walmart.com/newsroom/company-facts#:~:text=Walmart employs more than 2.2,million in the U.S. alone.

walmart employs 1% of the US workforce (people that want to work) - that is one hell of a number.
about the same as the government.

Take a look at what walmart will do for a motivated employee - now since it is corp boasting, i don't expect it to be all roses like they say,
but it seems legit that the person that starts stocking shelves has a career path if they choose.

quick calc of raising all non-management employee pay $1/hr would result in a $4B reduction in profit (20%).
raising what is paid out costs the employer much more than just the salary.
 

ebarker9

Well-Known Member
I know who Dave Ramsey is. Great system for those who grew up with nothing and have access to his books. But it still doesn’t tell the story of how many people are living off old money in this country. People with old money didn’t “make it”. Their parents and grandparents made it. What really is sickening to me is trust fund babies. They are all set up to not work a day in their life.

"Live on rice and beans" and buy a car that may or may not work on any given day might be advice that I'd give a friend with no other options, but it's not something that I'd base economic policy on. And if the "American Dream" is to be miserable through your 20s and 30s in hopes of being fat and happy later in life, that seems like kind of a shitty dream. Seems like we can do better as a country.
 

Bike N Gear

Shop: Bike N Gear
Shop Keep
quick calc of raising all non-management employee pay $1/hr would result in a $4B reduction in profit (20%).
raising what is paid out costs the employer much more than just the salary.
What if they raised the price of every item they sell by $.05 at the same time?
 

Fire Lord Jim

Well-Known Member
"Live on rice and beans" and buy a car that may or may not work on any given day might be advice that I'd give a friend with no other options, but it's not something that I'd base economic policy on. And if the "American Dream" is to be miserable through your 20s and 30s in hopes of being fat and happy later in life, that seems like kind of a shitty dream. Seems like we can do better as a country.
And that is precisely why people are not getting rich. Because they are unwilling to be miserable today for a great tomorrow. The idea of earning it before you spend it is what died, not the American Dream.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
I know who Dave Ramsey is. Great system for those who grew up with nothing and have access to his books. But it still doesn’t tell the story of how many people are living off old money in this country. People with old money didn’t “make it”. Their parents and grandparents made it. What really is sickening to me is trust fund babies. They are all set up to not work a day in their life.
So if you had the means to "set" your family up for their lifetime, you wouldn't?
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
So if you had the means to "set" your family up for their lifetime, you wouldn't?
No, I fucking hate the feeling of not working for something and getting handouts. It takes motivation away. Just like giving your kid an ipad to keep him occupied.
 

ebarker9

Well-Known Member
And that is precisely why people are not getting rich. Because they are unwilling to be miserable today for a great tomorrow. The idea of earning it before you spend it is what died, not the American Dream.

Again, it's a shitty dream if it relies on eating rice and beans for years in hopes of "getting rich" later in life. People don't live that long...a certain amount of sacrifice in the service of creating a better life is a given, but living for years in near poverty isn't something that we should accept as necessary for being successful.

There seem to be a lot of people suggesting that things are "fine" because it is possible for someone to start out with relatively little and accomplish a lot. Putting aside the statistics of how likely that is, why not be open to discussing options that would be better than "fine"? There are models that have been successful in other countries. We have tons of historical data on what does and does not work. Why can't we do better?
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
No, I fucking hate the feeling of not working for something and getting handouts. It takes motivation away. Just like giving your kid an ipad to keep him occupied.
Add to that, it makes people feel entitled. Asconolicated as I make this sound I consider myself a simple person. I don’t crave a big house, a fancy car or fancy food. I don’t care what others think of me but that’s not how most of middle class America thinks. Sure, I have a couple nice vehicles but I don’t care what people think when I drive my Corolla ghetto beater around either. It gets better mileage and gets me to where I want to be. Once there the other things(bicycle ride/race, views etc) are what I care about. If you look at research the size of a person’s house generally doesn’t matter to them, it’s the size if their house relative to others in their neighborhood. How fucked up is that?
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
No, I fucking hate the feeling of not working for something and getting handouts. It takes motivation away. Just like giving your kid an ipad to keep him occupied.
But it is your kids....

Anyways:
so what did you do with your stimulus check? You can't give it to some one in need, because it is a "handout". You can't keep it because it is a "handout". I assume you sent it back to the feds?
 
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Johnny Utah

Well-Known Member
You make it sound like walmart can't afford to pay it's employees more, which is completely false. Their margins aren't as razor thin as you believe they are. It's said that when a new walmart opens their doors for the first time, they already have a months payroll ready to go just from promotional fees that they charge their sellers. Part of their low prices is forcing their suppliers to reduce their prices, which they do by moving jobs out of america to China where workers are making $0.25 an hour. And they run like a consignment shop, the sellers take all the risk, walmart doesn't pay them until the products are sold at retail, and they don't pay for returns. They also run far more efficiently than most other businesses, partly by putting a lot of the logistics in the hands of their suppliers. They can easily pay more, they just don't want to. Profit is king.
A lot of retail businesses work this way now, not just Walmart. It isn’t just large businesses as well, many small businesses run this model as well. Eventually Walmart will be a statistic just like Rickels, Jamesway, Kmart......there is a ton of risk in this type of Industry, six months of global issue can put them under. Walmart has adapted well to the Amazon threat, I wonder how they will be able to hold the carry costs of the brick and mortar stores over time.
 

clarkenstein

JORBA Board Member/Chapter Leader
JORBA.ORG
Add to that, it makes people feel entitled. Asconolicated as I make this sound I consider myself a simple person. I don’t crave a big house, a fancy car or fancy food. I don’t care what others think of me but that’s not how most of middle class America thinks. Sure, I have a couple nice vehicles but I don’t care what people think when I drive my Corolla ghetto beater around either. It gets better mileage and gets me to where I want to be. Once there the other things(bicycle ride/race, views etc) are what I care about. If you look at research the size of a person’s house generally doesn’t matter to them, it’s the size if their house relative to others in their neighborhood. How fucked up is that?
You’re hitting on materialistic tendencies. I’m with you here. Sometimes I think materialism is confused with the American Dream. It’s not about having more stuff. The Dream to me is being able to make a better life for yourself and your family. I’m doing better than my parents. They did better than theirs. People move here to start that process, to build the foundation. It may not happen overnight, it may not happen for a generation or two, but that to me is the Dream. the system is definitely flawed. I’m all for looking to possibly change the way things are done if it will improve the system overall, especially for the people at the bottom. Handouts don’t work, safety nets do IMHO. People will take risk with a net, but if it’s done for them, they probably won’t.
 
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