Wawayanda Down Trees - Intel? Crowd Sourcing Your Observations...

Will

Member
if you shared that info before I missed it. good to know the park deems those trails too dangerous to ride considering everyone rides them. who in the park told you this?
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
Within Black Bear, I share the JORBA duties for Wayway with @jeffstick. Jeff is our primary sawyer.

Simply, chain saw certification is required to cut trees in any NJ park with a power saw. However, please ride with your handsaw and help us out with the small stuff.

Regarding the trails out by Splitrock and The Wall that were illegally built; the park has instructed Black Bear not to maintain those trails. The park has deemed them dangerous and too hard to extract an injured person in the event of an incident. The park would prefer that people not ride those trails and for the forest to reclaim that area. Not the answer you were looking for and I am sure I will get some hate mail. Don’t shoot the messenger.

Thanks for the info !!! Good stuff.
 

onetracker

Well-Known Member
if you shared that info before I missed it. good to know the park deems those trails too dangerous to ride considering everyone rides them. who in the park told you this?
Cannot go into specifics on which park officials but that is the view of park mgmt. The trails specifically are Split Rock and The Wall.

If folks stop building illegal trails; it is possible that trails like Porcupine and Hemlock may be adopted as part of the official network (and Black Bear can maintain and improve as nevessary). We are currently in discussions along those lines.
 

V-Dub

Well-Known Member
In general, permission to use a chainsaw will only be granted to those with formal training and/or are licensed in NJ.

This is unfortunate, as most of the work is limbing or bucking (it is still dangerous, but not like felling)

Thank you for the offer - Call the park office, and always offer to supply labor.
Just my two cents but a lot of times storm damaged or downed trees are more dangerous than felling trees.
Most of those tangled trees do weird sh#t when you start cutting them out
Anyone who is trying to clean stuff out please be careful
 

serviceguy

Well-Known Member
This is unfortunate, as most of the work is limbing or bucking (it is still dangerous, but not like felling)

I was quite
Just my two cents but a lot of times storm damaged or downed trees are more dangerous than felling trees.
Most of those tangled trees do weird sh#t when you start cutting them out
Anyone who is trying to clean stuff out please be careful

For what my opinion on the matter is worth, after spending a few hours watching Art cutting up some big ass downed trees entangled with each other in Ringwood last Saturday I can confirm that this is absolutely the case. Those big suckers pop and move in any direction they want once you start cutting them. Let's leave it to who knows what they're doing please.
 

onetracker

Well-Known Member
I was quite


For what my opinion on the matter is worth, after spending a few hours watching Art cutting up some big ass downed trees entangled with each other in Ringwood last Saturday I can confirm that this is absolutely the case. Those big suckers pop and move in any direction they want once you start cutting them. Let's leave it to who knows what they're doing please.
Totally agree. I have been a swamper for years and stuff pops, stands up, etc. Need groups of guys who are certified, work well together and know what they are doing.
 

chris12453

Well-Known Member
Well let’s hope if porcupine gets adopted we leave it just as it is. That is a great raw technical trail. No offense to other park trail builders, but I don’t want to see a flow trail in wayway. Raw like Stokes is the way to go.
 

jimf

Active Member
Both porcupine and wall are on official maps. I know they are not blazed and were illegally cut, but I have a map of the park from the state that shows both trails. I had incorrectly assumed that this meant that the trails had been adopted by the park as sanctioned trails. Map was from a few years ago, I think it noted unblazed trail or something like that and that may mean that it is illegal and I just did not know what the term meant.

Well let’s hope if porcupine gets adopted we leave it just as it is. That is a great raw technical trail. No offense to other park trail builders, but I don’t want to see a flow trail in wayway. Raw like Stokes is the way to go.
 

onetracker

Well-Known Member
Both porcupine and wall are on official maps. I know they are not blazed and were illegally cut, but I have a map of the park from the state that shows both trails. I had incorrectly assumed that this meant that the trails had been adopted by the park as sanctioned trails. Map was from a few years ago, I think it noted unblazed trail or something like that and that may mean that it is illegal and I just did not know what the term meant.
The map from “the state” is actually a NYNJTC map. I know Porcupine is on the map but I do not think The Wall is on that map. I will double check. Either way, they are not officially recognized at the moment. I do not foresee Split Rock or The Wall ever being officially recognized by the park.
 

JimN

Captain Wildcat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
The map from “the state” is actually a NYNJTC map. I know Porcupine is on the map but I do not think The Wall is on that map. I will double check.

Looks they are all on there as unmaintained trails.

5C7117BF-894A-4379-AD6B-4059B59B12BA.png


This is the 2014 map. Looks like there is a 2017 as well, so it could be different.
 

goldsbar

Well-Known Member
Just my two cents but a lot of times storm damaged or downed trees are more dangerous than felling trees.
Most of those tangled trees do weird sh#t when you start cutting them out
Anyone who is trying to clean stuff out please be careful
Leaning trees and anything with a spring in it (that you think isn't under tension but is) are the surest way to loose body parts or eyesight.
 

Off The Road Again

Well-Known Member
Within Black Bear, I share the JORBA duties for Wayway with @jeffstick. Jeff is our primary sawyer.

Simply, chain saw certification is required to cut trees in any NJ park with a power saw. However, please ride with your handsaw and help us out with the small stuff.

Regarding the trails out by Splitrock and The Wall that were illegally built; the park has instructed Black Bear not to maintain those trails. The park has deemed them dangerous and too hard to extract an injured person in the event of an incident. The park would prefer that people not ride those trails and for the forest to reclaim that area. Not the answer you were looking for and I am sure I will get some hate mail. Don’t shoot the messenger.
Not shooting the messenger, and I appreciate the work you and @jeffstick do for the park. One can argue any trail at Wawayanda is 'dangerous', depending on skill level. Splitrock and the Wall have become more dangerous beCAUSE they are not maintained. I knew the person who built those trails (along with some of the favorites like Hemlock, Sitting Bear, Tombstone, Rattlesnake, etc), he knew how to incorporate natural features to make for a fun ride. Technical, but fun. I would argue Gravity is the most difficult and dangerous trail, and as for extraction - it's in the same area as Splitrock, so I respectfully disagree. I will respect the park's wish to not ride those trails if I can avoid them, though it's difficult to avoid if you park at Ferber.

Footnote: I think I've crashed/fallen on almost every trail at Waway. Love that place.
 
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Joe J

Well-Known Member

This is how you get certified to cut in a NJ State Park.

To echo what others have said cutting wind downed trees without proper training & gear won't get you hurt it will get you dead.
 

sundaydoug

Well-Known Member
One can argue any trail at Wawayanda is 'dangerous', depending on skill level.

I'd go a step further and argue that driving your car on NJ public roads to get to Wawayanda is more dangerous than riding bikes in Wawayanda.

There's nothing exceedingly dangerous about either Split Rock or The Wall. I'm sure the park just had to say those things to cover themselves in the unfortunate event that someone happens to get hurt out there.
 

johnbryanpeters

Well-Known Member

This is how you get certified to cut in a NJ State Park.

To echo what others have said cutting wind downed trees without proper training & gear won't get you hurt it will get you dead.
Do they recognize USFS certification? Or Game of Logging?
 

Kaleidopete

Well-Known Member
Chainsaw Certification Workshop - for active trail volunteers. Closed to outside registration.
This is important, you must already be a trail volunteer with them.
 

jimf

Active Member
I knocked out a couple of 4-5 inch logs that were blocking Plymouth with my hand chain saw. There are two more left that I should be able to knock out this weekend.

Hoff has two new large rotten trees down toward the double pond side to go with the one that has been down for some time. Given how rotten they are I may take a crack at them with the hand chain saw just to see what the limit of this thing is. So far I have been pretty impressed with its cutting power.

@Kaleidopete safe to assume you cut the branches off the downed tree by the top of the climb on Hof from the ranger station? Seems like there are three more cuts to make there. Again these seem small enough that I can do them with the hand chains saw.

I will be out on Sunday morning early I think and will report back. Hope to be able to say Hof from Ranger all the way to Banker is clear. I may be a little to ambitious.
 

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